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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Surname wars - who is unreasonable?

198 replies

Snoozingandlosing12 · 09/02/2023 09:38

Going to try and be completely objective to avoid swaying opinions.

I’ve been with DP for many years. We have two DC. We aren’t married but would both quite like to get married. DP has a double-barrelled surname. The first name of his surname is difficult to pronounce correctly for English people. When it’s incorrectly pronounced it rhymes with my first name. Think ‘Mrs Dawn Lawn’ but not as nice sounding and more humorous.

When we had DC we double-barrelled their surnames (not my preference) with my surname first and then the second part of his surname. I’m not keen on this. I would prefer they just have my surname or just the second part of his surname.

Now here’s the AIBU part. DP says he isn’t happy that we completely dropped the ‘Lawn’ part of his surname and that if we were to get married he would want the children’s names to be changed to have that part. He says he feels strongly tied to the ‘Lawn’ surname and hurt that his children don’t have it. My attitude is very much that I don’t care much about their surname, but I care that they have a surname that I could take if we were to get married (I would reluctantly take the same double-barrelled one they have) and that they don’t have a name that is hard to pronounce or could be teased.

This is a big obstacle to whether we would get married as he feels so strongly about this name. Who’s being unreasonable?

OP posts:
BenCoopersSupportWren · 09/02/2023 15:27

Parisj · 09/02/2023 13:33

It can carry a weight of status, family tradition and carrying on the family name that becomes part of how a man views his own success. But that can't be reconciled with fairness or equality, and times move on.

Funny how he’s keen on the family tradition that says all other members of the family are defined by his name, but not the family tradition where you get married before having children.

(For the record, I personally couldn’t give a shit if people have children without being married so long as the woman doesn’t get screwed over, but I’m not the one whinging about carrying on my family name.)

AreBearsCatholic · 09/02/2023 15:35

He’s giving you the choice of being unmarried or being slightly humiliated.
Personally I would stay unmarried and think of some alternatives (financial alternatives, agreements between the two of you, alternatives where you break up, whatever you feel like).

Nephthys21 · 09/02/2023 15:41

@Snoozingandlosing12 I would leave the kids names alone to save them any faff in the future of having to document previous names. I would then also just keep your own surname after marriage (assuming his patriarchal attitude that you have to be claimed as belonging to him via use of his surname hasn't put you off entirely). Then the kids have a bit of each of your names and you don't have to take on a name for yourself that you don't like.

Dreamstate · 09/02/2023 16:25

Personally I don't even get why change your surname after getting married, I certainly won't be. I do not want all that faff of changing paperwork.

billy1966 · 09/02/2023 16:28

Hard swerve on marrying him.

He sounds like tedious hard work.

The things men get wound up over🙄.

I kept my own name without a single discussion about it 30 years ago.

I simply don't compute a person wishing to give up their name for a man, much less take a name on that sounds a bit titish.

Hard swerve from me.

Sandinmyknickers · 09/02/2023 16:50

Drfosters · 09/02/2023 10:42

Personally I’m not a fan of double barrelling surnames as I think it leads to further complications such as this for the next generation and then the next. Where does it stop? I also think, as someone with a long first name and whose maiden name was long, it got very tiresome having to spend ages writing my name out on forms and then sometimes running out of space. I Was super glad to get married and have a short new surname. I think someone else’s suggestion to add in the ‘extra’ surnames as middles names is the perfect solution. The names are included, they don’t have to used unless the children want to and they can pass to this children if they so wish as a tradition. Ironically It is more likely to be passed down the generations if it is a middle name rather than a surname. My friend’s family did that and she has a middle name that has been passed down many generations to both the girls and the boys in the family but it is clearly originally a surname.

Hard no to surnames as Middle names. My parents did that to me. Of course, everyone when reading my full name on forms used to assume it was a surname and double barrell it and it led to so much confusion and wrong registering of things. Half the time if I showed up to a new school or anything as a kid, I wasn't sure what name I would have been accidentally registered under by someone processing forms and taking it upon themselves to assume. As soon as I could, I changed it by deed poll to get rid of the middle name and just keep the one surname. Such a faff!!!!

Sandinmyknickers · 09/02/2023 16:53

AreBearsCatholic · 09/02/2023 15:35

He’s giving you the choice of being unmarried or being slightly humiliated.
Personally I would stay unmarried and think of some alternatives (financial alternatives, agreements between the two of you, alternatives where you break up, whatever you feel like).

Yep, I hate to say it but I agree with this. What a mean position to put you in just over a blimmin name! It's completely detracting from the very real and actual discussions of what marriage should be about and reducing it to just a name

IDontWantToBeAPie · 09/02/2023 16:55

Why does he think you're being awkward but not him? Because he's never thought about changing his name and women are 'supposed to'.

I'd want the same name as my kids. I wouldn't want a name that sounded stupid with my forename. I also wouldn't want to be essentially told 'do what I say or I won't marry you' because that's emotional blackmail.

SpongeBob2022 · 09/02/2023 17:17

Not sure how old your children are but I think it's a bit late to change their names now.

I think it's reasonable for both of you to want the same surname as your children.

I don't think it's unreasonable for you to not want to be Dawn Lawn.

It's more reasonable for you to not be Dawn Lawn than it is for him to keep a name because he likes it. Therefore he has a choice...he either drops Lawn and has the same name as his children, or he keeps it and doesn't have the same name as them. (I think he should drop it but it's his decision).

Think of a ridiculous name that rhymes with his first name and ask him how he'd feel being called that.

I don't understand the obsession with surnames. Surely for your children you just want something that people won't take the mick out of and is easy to get right. That's my only criteria!

Butterflytattoo · 09/02/2023 17:20

Can you swap the name round so that it's your current surname first and then the first part of his surname second?
Dawn Smithers-Lawn sounds a lot better than Dawn Lawn-Smithers.

Nandocushion · 09/02/2023 19:23

Butterflytattoo · 09/02/2023 17:20

Can you swap the name round so that it's your current surname first and then the first part of his surname second?
Dawn Smithers-Lawn sounds a lot better than Dawn Lawn-Smithers.

Yes I thought this too. So you are Smith and he is Lawn-Mower and the kids are now Smith-Mower. But he likes Lawn and not Mower so could you all be Smith-Lawn? That would give you a bit of separation between the potentially rhyming names.

I'm a bit of an outlier on MN because I kept my own name and couldn't care less that my kids don't have the same name as me. It's never once been an issue in 17 years of travelling etc.

Original poster
Snoozingandlosing12 · 09/02/2023 19:26

I think reading a lot of your responses out to him started to get through to him a bit. The reason we didn’t do Dawn my name-Lawn is because he’s always maintained that he won’t change his surname AT ALL. So if we would never even have the same surname as each other I didn’t see any merit in giving the children the half of his name that is a pain in the arse to pronounce and spell. That was perhaps wrong of me if it means so much to him, but that really wasn’t emphasised prior to going to the registry office with a newborn!

He’s now saying we could maybe drop all double-barrelled nonsense and instead all have his second surname, and they can all have the unusual name as a middle name. Lucky things! Or he’s also giving some thought to all of us becoming my name-Lawn..including him. What a nightmare!

The name is obviously his dad’s. It would be, wouldn’t it? And his dad has a big chip on his shoulder that people tease it or don’t know how to pronounce it. My DP appears to have inherited this chip and therefore feels fiercely defensive and protective of a name. A name.

OP posts:
Original poster
Snoozingandlosing12 · 09/02/2023 19:30

Children are young and not aware of their surnames. This is in a large part due to me being reluctant to speak the surname out loud because I really don’t like the double-barrelled element of it. It doesn’t flow and has none of that ‘Tom Thumb, come over here right now!’ fun to it. I would gladly welcome a change if it meant being rid of that. I’ve had quite a few surname changes and never found it too much of a headache with form-filling.

OP posts:
samqueens · 09/02/2023 19:33

I’d be so over this if I were you. If he has now let go of Lawn as surname then surely the issue is moot. Why does he think he should get to restamp the children (and you) at this stage of the game? Like he wants to say “MINE! MINE!”

This isn’t anything to do with being married, and if he is equating marriage with ownership and control in this way it’s a poor start.

samqueens · 09/02/2023 19:34

If he was so terribly emotionally attached to his dads name he should have married you a long long time ago

glitterfarts · 09/02/2023 19:37

Traditional convention is that if unmarried, children get mum's surname.
Leave the kids Surname as it is. Keep yours or change to same as kids.
He can keep his or change to same as kids and put his awkward name as a middle name.

Why is he the ONLY one not to be inconvenienced? Is he a bit of a selfish person normally or just a misogynist?

Harriettt · 09/02/2023 19:39

He is being unreasonable. The children don't need to change their names just because you get married. It should all just be a non issue.

BadNomad · 09/02/2023 19:40

It's all about the men, isn't it. He doesn't want to change his name. His father's name is sacred, but he might be willing to drop his mother's name (because who cares about that) if you insist on your name being present. He's horrible.

Everydayimhuffling · 09/02/2023 20:00

If it was so important to him he should have pushed for it at the time. Too late now as it us no longer his name to decide: it's the children's.

StarsSand · 10/02/2023 00:44

Of course it's his dads name.

Men are incredibly important. Women and their names can be erased from the family tree no problem. But a MAN?! No, there's a legacy and a history to protect.

It sounds like he's just become more conservative and more like his dad as he ages. If it was so important he would have said so at the time. Babies take 40 weeks to prepare, he had plenty of time to bring it up.

Tell him no.

If he doesn't care about his mothers name then drop it from the double barrel and your children can just have your name. If he wants to match then he can change his name, easy for him since he apparently decided it's no big deal for you or the kids to do the same.

Ponderingwindow · 10/02/2023 01:00

Don’t discount the hassle of name changes. For certain careers they can be extremely difficult.

deeperthanallroses · 10/02/2023 01:10

Maybe he should have married you back then, I’d say that ship has sailed and us getting married is not something you can hold over me to get your way in our family’s names. Tell him he’s bloody lucky - I’ve kept my maiden name and if dp hadn’t wanted to get married and we had our kids anyway hell would freeze over before our children were given his last name.

BlueHeelers · 10/02/2023 06:22

The reason we didn’t do Dawn my name-Lawn is because he’s always maintained that he won’t change his surname AT ALL.

Ask him how he’d feel if you were insisting on him taking YOUR name.

The assumption that he has the final say in all of this is masculine privilege personified. Men just don’t even consider they don’t get to call the shots. It just doesn’t cross their mind.

plumduck · 10/02/2023 06:42

And his dad has a big chip on his shoulder that people tease it or don’t know how to pronounce it. don't do it to your kids.

Fink · 10/02/2023 12:32

Snoozingandlosing12 · 09/02/2023 19:26

I think reading a lot of your responses out to him started to get through to him a bit. The reason we didn’t do Dawn my name-Lawn is because he’s always maintained that he won’t change his surname AT ALL. So if we would never even have the same surname as each other I didn’t see any merit in giving the children the half of his name that is a pain in the arse to pronounce and spell. That was perhaps wrong of me if it means so much to him, but that really wasn’t emphasised prior to going to the registry office with a newborn!

He’s now saying we could maybe drop all double-barrelled nonsense and instead all have his second surname, and they can all have the unusual name as a middle name. Lucky things! Or he’s also giving some thought to all of us becoming my name-Lawn..including him. What a nightmare!

The name is obviously his dad’s. It would be, wouldn’t it? And his dad has a big chip on his shoulder that people tease it or don’t know how to pronounce it. My DP appears to have inherited this chip and therefore feels fiercely defensive and protective of a name. A name.

He can't have it both ways. Earlier he was claiming that only the (what has turned out to be the) Dad's surname was important to him, he had no real connection to the (what has turned out to be the) Mum's surname. And now it turns out that he refused to change either part. And at the same time, he will consider keeping the Dad's name as a middle name and the Mum's name as a surname. So he can't even make his own mind up, just messing you around as long as his Dad's name gets in there somewhere.

Don't let him keep making excuses for why his Dad's name is suddenly so precious but wasn't at the time of the pregnancies. The name is a red herring at best, being deliberately held over you as an excuse not to marry at worst. Do not get married to someone who will blackmail and manipulate and try to coerce you like this. Count yourself lucky you're not tied to him.

And that's even if it were a reasonable name. Clearly Dawn Smith-Lawn is no better than Dawn Lawn. And even worse if no one can say it properly or spell it. If your children had been landed with that at birth, it's workable, but there is absolutely no good reason to change their names now.

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