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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Screaming baby on children's ward

394 replies

Tomblibooz · 09/02/2023 00:10

I'm on the children's ward tonight staying with my little one (who's currently fast asleep). Across the hall is a baby, I'd estimate to be around 4mo, left by themselves and has been screaming/crying for over an hour. The sort of wailing that it's making itself choke. It's heartbreaking to hear, and so I went for a wander to see what was going on and to offer to help.

Only 2 nurses on tonight, so short staffed. Baby's mum has gone home to pick up some things. Baby is left alone screaming in a cot, and has been for the hour basically.

I offered to go in and try and calm little one, even just sitting shushing or singing lullabies, but was told they couldn't allow it.

Aibu in thinking you'd prefer your little one to be looked after by a random mum, than be left alone screaming for over an hour on it's own?

I appreciate my hormones are all over the place just now and I'm on about night 3 of no sleep, so I may bu!

Yabu - people leave their own baby's to cry it out, baby was safe so no drama

Yanbu - for baby and everyone else's sake

OP posts:
PumpkinPastiez · 09/02/2023 01:16

Kill them not milk them*

Floralnomad · 09/02/2023 01:22

I wouldn’t have done a PALS report , it’s irrelevant how many staff are on duty unless there was 1 nurse to each patient the same scenario could arise .

CelestiaNoctis · 09/02/2023 01:31

That's disgusting. I would put in a complaint. When I had to stay in with my infant son for surgery, the nurses actively kept watch over him while I went to get food or supplies during our stay. I watched them with other babies also left for some time while their parents did the same and on occasion this particular baby would get very upset. So the nurses would pick them up and carry them around as they did paperwork or they got assistants to come in and comfort them and shush them gently. I understand they're understaffed but they need to call someone else in. No it's not appropriate for you to help but they can't leave an infant in distress like that especially one that's unwell I assume because they're staying in hospital.

kitcat15 · 09/02/2023 01:39

CelestiaNoctis · 09/02/2023 01:31

That's disgusting. I would put in a complaint. When I had to stay in with my infant son for surgery, the nurses actively kept watch over him while I went to get food or supplies during our stay. I watched them with other babies also left for some time while their parents did the same and on occasion this particular baby would get very upset. So the nurses would pick them up and carry them around as they did paperwork or they got assistants to come in and comfort them and shush them gently. I understand they're understaffed but they need to call someone else in. No it's not appropriate for you to help but they can't leave an infant in distress like that especially one that's unwell I assume because they're staying in hospital.

That’s not allowed in our childrens ward…no way would you be allowed to hold a baby whilst doing paperwork or have them anywhere near the nurses station…..there’s not enough staff I agree….so staff have no choice to leave them if their basic needs have been met and they are not at risk…..what do you think a complaint would result in? ….a big fat nothing, that’s what

Tomblibooz · 09/02/2023 01:57

I won't put a PALS in. The nurses have been fantastic with my little one and I don't want any risk of them being to blame.

Baby settled for a while so I assumed a parent had arrived back, but unfortunately it's now screaming again and no sounds of someone trying to calm it.

It's going to be a long night!

OP posts:
madeyemoody · 09/02/2023 02:14

I work for the NHS and have MANY interactions with the PALS team.

A PALS complaint is your ability to express what happened. You will replied to and most likely be called by the ward manager/sister/matron if you write in your PALS this is staffing issue vs provision of care then they will want more information on that. They will be happy to hear their nurses are maintaining professionalism whilst under pressure that is a sign of good morale on the ward. But the managers need to know from the patients and families that the staffing is unsafe, they use these complaints to get extra staff from agencies and maybe even recruitment.

You will not get anyone in trouble with a PALS unless you word it in a way that places blame on the nurses.

HoppingPavlova · 09/02/2023 02:27

Good luck with the extra staff! Our system is pretty diabolical at present. Not just a case of get more/hire more staff or funding to do so. More so a case of no one out there to hire really as people have left in droves and not enough coming through with new recruitment to fill gaps. I had colleagues in the UK telling me it’s the same but worse there for both hospital clinicians and GP’s and in particular nurses are badly hit with this? Is this not the case? Can you just organise bank staff as needed to plug gaps, or it’s physically possible to recruit more nursing staff into NHS as a ‘fix’ to problems as described in OP? If so, you are indeed doing better than we are!

PumpkinPastiez · 09/02/2023 02:36

CelestiaNoctis · 09/02/2023 01:31

That's disgusting. I would put in a complaint. When I had to stay in with my infant son for surgery, the nurses actively kept watch over him while I went to get food or supplies during our stay. I watched them with other babies also left for some time while their parents did the same and on occasion this particular baby would get very upset. So the nurses would pick them up and carry them around as they did paperwork or they got assistants to come in and comfort them and shush them gently. I understand they're understaffed but they need to call someone else in. No it's not appropriate for you to help but they can't leave an infant in distress like that especially one that's unwell I assume because they're staying in hospital.

How would you be able or allowed to do your job and hold a baby? Do ivs and paperwork with a baby attached to you? Not a chance! You'd be before hr before you could say 'morning'

Vegalam · 09/02/2023 03:03

CelestiaNoctis · 09/02/2023 01:31

That's disgusting. I would put in a complaint. When I had to stay in with my infant son for surgery, the nurses actively kept watch over him while I went to get food or supplies during our stay. I watched them with other babies also left for some time while their parents did the same and on occasion this particular baby would get very upset. So the nurses would pick them up and carry them around as they did paperwork or they got assistants to come in and comfort them and shush them gently. I understand they're understaffed but they need to call someone else in. No it's not appropriate for you to help but they can't leave an infant in distress like that especially one that's unwell I assume because they're staying in hospital.

Call who in?
They are understaffed. There is no one to call in.

It's a very sad situation but it sounds like the nurses are doing what they can. We don't know the medical needs of the baby or the other responsibilities the nurses have to other patients on the ward.

I would potentially write to PALS, but emphasise the professionalism of the nurses and highlight that this was a staffing issue rather than the nurses being intentionally neglectful.

Everyonehasavoice · 09/02/2023 03:03

Mad eye moody has made an excellent point

I can understand why they wouldn’t allow you to help though
It is a security issue
When my breast pump machine stopped working one night I had to go to hospital to use there’s ( lots of milk and had to express every night to keep the supply up for 2 babies )
When I got to the hospital I was put in a glass room with two security guards at the door whilst I expressed .
They obv thought I was going to steal a baby.

They have to be very careful

Crumpetdisappointment · 09/02/2023 03:04

i dont think pals would help

Throwncrumbs · 09/02/2023 03:07

The mothers gone home this late in the night? 2nurses for how many children? Unfortunately if they are short staffed some one is going to be left and it won’t be the sickest child. The most poorly will be top priority. Poor baby should not have been left by the mother.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 09/02/2023 03:10

negomi90 · 09/02/2023 00:26

I work on a childrens ward. Sometimes medical procedures are awful. Sometimes babies object to treatment and no amount of soothing makes it better.
The baby will have been fed according to how much is safe. Many babies in hospital at the moment have breathing problems. They can't feed as much as they want, because a full stomach impedes breathing in babies.. The baby may be hungry, but that will be for a reason.
The baby may also be protesting breathing support. Some don't mind it, others hate it.
It may also be protesting feeling sick and rotten and be in the state where nothing will comfort it.
Sometimes these babies can't be consoled and believe me people try very hard.

Believe me most of them (staff on children's wards) don't try very hard, at least not when a child's parent isn't there, and of course when they are there the staff don't need to.

I find it actually disgraceful how many babies and young children are left to cry their eyes out, and this is through personally being by my own children's sides over 30 years ago - one of my children had an illness that meant they had to frequently have stays in hospital when they were very young - and later, when I was a mature nurse (I took up nursing after all my children had started school) and worked on children's wards. Of course some of us cared passionately about our poor little charges, but we were far outnumbered by those to whom it seemed to be only a job.

When I first experienced the screaming babies @Tomblibooz when I was just a mum like you, staying with my child, I felt just as upset and helpless as you do (and yes I offered as well to go into the screaming babies, but was turned down because of the risk of cross infection, which was of course a possibility. I was all set to let the mum's know when they came back, just what happened when they weren't there. But I didn't say anything to them, and I still sometimes get bouts of guilt over that. I decided in the end to not say anything, because I thought what if the mother had no choice but to leave her little one, she might have other children at home that she had to get back to - I was lucky, I had my children's Dad, and my mum, to keep things at home ticking over, but I knew that an awful lot of mothers didn't have anyone they could depend on - so I was really torn about what to do. But now I wish I had told them, it wasn't my decision to make, and maybe the mum's could have sorted something out?

@negomi90 Not only did I have to take issue with you telling the OP "... believe me people try very hard." to console the babies, as you can only possibly know that that was what happened in the ward you were on, but also those are almost exactly the same words that the nurses would use to any mum - or dad - that came in to find their baby crying, and I had been there the whole time, so I knew it wasn't true!

Also negomi, babies need consoling arms and words no matter what reason they may have for feeling so upset. I presume that you are not a mother if you don't understand that fundamental fact. Even if all you are allowed to do is sit by their cot and touch them through protective sleeves through the side of the cot, a gentle but firm touch, and reassuring and loving words, will effect the baby positively, even if you can't pick up those signs. As far as I am concerned, both personally and professionally, that baby in the ward where the OP is, is almost certainly being neglected.

My very first sentence to you in my post here negomi, was almost as ridiculous as your whole post. I said it deliberately in the hope of making you think that, she (me, TheLadyofShalott) cannot possibly make a sweeping statement like that, about all or most of the staff on all children's wards, with the hope that it would make you realise that you can't either...

Unfortunately, I very much believe that what the poor OP, the poor baby, and what that other poor child who wanted to help were feeling, was entirely right. That baby should have never been left crying for so long, it just isn't justifiable.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 09/02/2023 03:17

SirenSays · 09/02/2023 00:51

I was put on a ward with elderly ladies as a teen and being told not to help them was so hard. I understand the reasons but watching women scream and beg for help, even for basic things like getting to the loo and then wetting themselves is something I can't forget.

Thank you @SirenSays for being you ❤️

ppure · 09/02/2023 03:19

Opine · 09/02/2023 00:54

I’ve spent some time off children’s wards and been in this situation.
A baby in a cot across from my DC was inconsolable. The nurses were pottering about but not doing anything other than having a quick look through the glass.
After a solid 30 minutes of crying I went over, stood by the cot, & stroked the baby’s hand & shushed. Baby very quickly quietened.
Parents came back(they’d been in the canteen)& hit the roof. I explained but they weren’t having any of it. The nurse told me later that they complained to them too.

Yes I’d probably just go and tend to it without asking too, but always run the risk of angry parents 🤷‍♀️

redtshirt50 · 09/02/2023 03:22

Throwncrumbs · 09/02/2023 03:07

The mothers gone home this late in the night? 2nurses for how many children? Unfortunately if they are short staffed some one is going to be left and it won’t be the sickest child. The most poorly will be top priority. Poor baby should not have been left by the mother.

You have no right to judge the mother in this situation without more information.

Maybe she had childcare that's fallen through, or maybe she didn't know she'd need childcare in the first place and is now trying to sort something out in the middle of the night.

Maybe she's been up for days on end with no sleep and no rest, so decided to close her eyes for 5 minutes while she knew the baby was safe in hospital and has now fallen asleep.

It's easy to say the mother shouldn't have left, but the reality is sometimes that's just not possible.

Soonenough · 09/02/2023 03:29

Very distressing for everyone. This is exactly why nurses are on strike. Understaffed hospitals don't just mean nurses are over burdened , it also means patients suffer. Making nursing a viable career financially will attract and retrain staff.
Clapping for Carers seems a long time ago .

TheLadyofShalott1 · 09/02/2023 03:30

ppure · 09/02/2023 03:19

Yes I’d probably just go and tend to it without asking too, but always run the risk of angry parents 🤷‍♀️

They were probably feeling guilty that a stranger had cared for their baby, when if there was two of them one would normally assume that they could take it in turns going to the canteen, toilet or wherever.

Tomblibooz · 09/02/2023 03:34

@Throwncrumbs it would have been about 10.30/11pm that mum went home. I'm not sure when they came onto the ward exactly, but I don't think it was long before she left. Perhaps didn't think she was going to be admitted and needed medication or supplies? Whatever the reason,no judgement as I don't think many mum's would leave their unwell baby, unless they needed to.

OP posts:
sashh · 09/02/2023 03:36

The nurses can't give you permission. Safeguarding, infection risks etc.

They may turn a blind eye if you were to sing to the baby or talk to him/her.

Tomblibooz · 09/02/2023 03:41

In hindsight, I probably should have just gone in, but as baby was in a private room with the door shut I wanted to sus out the situation first. I would have felt wrong to go into a room that isn't mine, to a baby that isn't mine without knowing the situation. But then it felt wrong to listen to baby cry and nobody helping the poor little thing 😞

thankfully baby has settled since, it's just me who can't now!

OP posts:
Dinoboymama · 09/02/2023 03:57

If babies in a side room they may be in there for an infection so best not to go in.

Glad the babies settled.

We too have spent time in paeds wards it's hard to hear kids crying, we have witnessed nurses holding babies in the nursing station when doing paper work before and also feeding a baby a bottle there.

LynetteScavo · 09/02/2023 04:20

I'm so glad the baby has settled - this has been such a sad thread to read.

I've read many threads where a poster has been torn to shreds because they're at their whits end and have left their baby to cry (despite the baby possibly being safer alone in the cot the cot than being held by a fraught parent) but apparently it's just one of those things when it's the NHS. Apparently this what we expect of our health care system.

I do hope you're managing to sleep now Flowers

PumpkinPastiez · 09/02/2023 05:10

LynetteScavo · 09/02/2023 04:20

I'm so glad the baby has settled - this has been such a sad thread to read.

I've read many threads where a poster has been torn to shreds because they're at their whits end and have left their baby to cry (despite the baby possibly being safer alone in the cot the cot than being held by a fraught parent) but apparently it's just one of those things when it's the NHS. Apparently this what we expect of our health care system.

I do hope you're managing to sleep now Flowers

I'll ask again. How do I do my job as a nurse with a baby attached to me? How do I do IV Medication for 8+ other poorly children? Keep my mental health admissions safe from harm? Do obs on everyone? Do I just say to the other parents I have 'oh sorry the baby in the side room needs a cuddle to stop crying so I'll just hold them all night and your child who might develop sepsis will just have to wait?' No I didn't think so.

I'd love to be able to settle babies all night long, but as long as they're safe and the basic physical needs are met I can't do anymore.

kateandme · 09/02/2023 05:25

PumpkinPastiez · 09/02/2023 01:01

Nursing staff will have checked all basic needs have been met.

I used to work on a paeds ward and
I know it sounds absolutely shite but if I've got 14 children to look after no hca who
I would usually assign to a baby crying or if we had a child with no parents, that means I have 14 children, I need to do observations on, draw up iv medications for, administer the ivs, maybe administer bolus antibiotics over a certain period of time, administer breathing treatments, take handover from Ooh gp/ a&e for an admission, make sure all my documentation is up to date for each child, chase up safeguarding referrals the day staff didn't manage to do, more antibiotics, chase up the drs to prescribe medication that needs to done, plus let's say 4/5 teenagers with mental health issues who are at risk or suicide or self harm and need 15 min obs. Plus I need to check the other nurses IV medications because it requires 2 nurses per iv per patient.

Where in that am I going to have time to make sure a baby who has a clean nappy, isn't hungry etc is settled?

I'd love to do it but it's not possible. Breaks my heart but I don't have time.

Throw in the fact that in my hospital the nursing staff on the ward are the ones who do paeds resus in a&e it's ridiculous.

This is why we're on strike, not for pay. We need more staff

this and sometimes all this needs to be done in one hour ffks