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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Screaming baby on children's ward

394 replies

Tomblibooz · 09/02/2023 00:10

I'm on the children's ward tonight staying with my little one (who's currently fast asleep). Across the hall is a baby, I'd estimate to be around 4mo, left by themselves and has been screaming/crying for over an hour. The sort of wailing that it's making itself choke. It's heartbreaking to hear, and so I went for a wander to see what was going on and to offer to help.

Only 2 nurses on tonight, so short staffed. Baby's mum has gone home to pick up some things. Baby is left alone screaming in a cot, and has been for the hour basically.

I offered to go in and try and calm little one, even just sitting shushing or singing lullabies, but was told they couldn't allow it.

Aibu in thinking you'd prefer your little one to be looked after by a random mum, than be left alone screaming for over an hour on it's own?

I appreciate my hormones are all over the place just now and I'm on about night 3 of no sleep, so I may bu!

Yabu - people leave their own baby's to cry it out, baby was safe so no drama

Yanbu - for baby and everyone else's sake

OP posts:
Sirzy · 09/02/2023 08:01

MissMaple82 · 09/02/2023 07:58

Mum should have arranged someone to go get essentials or swapped sitting in with baby whilst she goes herself. Nobodies fault the mum. I wouldn't leave a 4 month old on its own

It’s easy to say that when your not in her position.

very few parents will leave their child by choice but sometimes it is the only option.

Xrays · 09/02/2023 08:01

MissMaple82 · 09/02/2023 07:58

Mum should have arranged someone to go get essentials or swapped sitting in with baby whilst she goes herself. Nobodies fault the mum. I wouldn't leave a 4 month old on its own

Not everyone has someone. Many single mums are literally just that, single. No family, no friends they could ask.

If I had a hypothetical baby then I would have had to leave it alone too as I already have a disabled child at home that dh would have needed to stay with - we wouldn’t have been able to swap over at the hospital as we couldn’t have taken dc to the hospital, we don’t have any other family. None. No friends.

People are so quick to judge others.

tiredwardsister · 09/02/2023 08:02

Wishiwasatailor · 09/02/2023 07:47

@Downtown123 a screaming baby is not a choking baby. A baby that is crying that can be heard through a closed door has a good airway. Doesn’t mean that they don’t need comforting but as a paeds nurse I wouldn’t be worried about their airway

^This as well. The staff maybe dealing with a child who actually does have an airway problem or myriad other life threatening issues or just generally running around trying to do millions of other important things. Of course its sad to hear a baby cry but when my children were small I had friends who let babies younger than 4 months "cry it out" to get them to sleep at night. One mum cheerfully told me her baby of 6 weeks cried for 4 hours the first night. It's not how I did it but all survived.
Two trained nurses on a busy paediatric ward is very stressful and I'm sure the staff are very aware the baby is crying and that this is adding to their frustration and stress levels.

iusedtobeasize8 · 09/02/2023 08:04

NameOchangeO1 · 09/02/2023 07:40

This sort of comment is really very ignorant. The mother may have other children she needs to see, she may have been there for weeks and just need a break, a meal that hasn't been boiled grey, to do some laundry, a decently hot shower with a towel that isn't hospital-issue, a hug from her own mum. Some people's children are in hospital for weeks or months, sometimes repeatedly. It's bloody hard for them and yes sometimes they have to leave their child.

Show quote history

Then she should go during the day when more staff are about. I've worked on childrens wards and I wouldnt leave my baby there on their own in a side room. Sorry, I just wouldn't. I also struggle to believe there were only 2 members of staff on duty. A nurse or healthcare would have been moved from another ward for the shift. Where I work 5 members of staff is considered poorly staffed and would be escalated.

westoftheplanets · 09/02/2023 08:05

@iusedtobeasize8 I had care during the day for my other kids but none at night.

Elnetthairnet · 09/02/2023 08:06

Yes you should complain if the nurses are rushed off their feet and are too busy. If the staffing levels are such that they aren’t able to provide care for a screaming baby so that the other children on the ward are able to rest, then there aren’t enough staff. It’s not their fault, and if you phrase it appropriately it isn’t going to come across like that. I work in the NHS. Staffing has been cut to the bone. Complaints are the only thing that is listened to.

tiredwardsister · 09/02/2023 08:12

Elnetthairnet · 09/02/2023 08:06

Yes you should complain if the nurses are rushed off their feet and are too busy. If the staffing levels are such that they aren’t able to provide care for a screaming baby so that the other children on the ward are able to rest, then there aren’t enough staff. It’s not their fault, and if you phrase it appropriately it isn’t going to come across like that. I work in the NHS. Staffing has been cut to the bone. Complaints are the only thing that is listened to.

What NHS trust do you work in where these sort of complaints are listened too? I have spent the last 12 years filling in IR1/DATIX about staffing levels and nothing changes in fact we have less staff and sicker children. We cant even get nurses from premium agencies because in my area and from talking to others across many regions in the UK staff simply don't exist. I know of some wards in my hospital and others where no trained staff have turned up for duty and often because these are speciality wards e.g paeds non can be found from other wards.

Swiftswatch · 09/02/2023 08:14

@tiredwardsister how do you expect parents looking after their young children in hospital to even eat?
I spent a week and a half in with my 1 yo recently and another week shortly after and it was the worst month of my life.
Baby was in a bed hooked up to oxygen but would panic when she woke up or other kids cried and she would then try to climb out of the bed, not cot.
At one point it took 40 mins for me to get someone to help and make sure baby couldn’t fall out of the bed while I went to the bathroom. I genuinely almost had to wet myself on the ward.
Baby was wired up so couldn’t even bring her with me.

I ate probably once every 48 hours as I couldn’t leave her so had to wait until I could be brought food by DH.

By the end of the stay I needed 2 weeks off because I had run myself into the ground so much.

A hospital stay with a child is bad enough but it is truly awful with a baby.

Shunkleisshiny · 09/02/2023 08:16

Bless her little heart, that brought tears to my eyes and I'm not the least sentimental. Hope your little one (and the baby) is better soon.

Postpartumbod · 09/02/2023 08:20

Perfect28 · 09/02/2023 07:02

Why has the parent gone home? You can't leave a child alone! Nurses are not childcare !

When DS was four weeks old he was in hospital with sepsis. We were no facilities to sterilise bottles, wash clothes, or shower. The paeds ward only fed breastfeeding mothers, so as I’d tried SND fsiked to establish milk supply and was formula feeding, I needed to get meals too. The only hospital that had room on a ward was was an hour and a half away from home so it wasn’t a case of just being able to pop out. DH was looking after our other children. No family to help. No friends close enough to help. I had no choice but to go home, or pop out to get pre made formula and food, or buy more clothes for DS. It’s not always a case of the parent just going home, often there’s zero choice.

Lovemusic33 · 09/02/2023 08:29

This is the reason why I could never leave my young child alone in hospital ☹️. I have seen how awful it is in adult wards so I can imagine that they are just as stretched in children’s. I have been in hospital with dd2 several times and had to stay with her the whole time, no one offered me food or drink, I couldn’t leave dd, she has autism and was only 3 at the time.
I had a stay myself 3 years ago and watched many awful things during evening shifts including a poor woman slip over after she had tried to get herself to the toilet and had wet herself, people were ringing their buzzers and no one came. One nurse was covering the whole ward (3 rooms, 6 people in each).

Untitledsquatboulder · 09/02/2023 08:29

I spent 3 weeks in a paed ward with my ds last autumn. At one point there were 3 babies/toddlers whose parents were largely absent. The staff tried really hard to spend time with them - during the day that's mostly what the play worker did - but playing and cuddling a child isn't and shouldn't be a priority compared to providing nursing care for them or the whole ward. On the other hand having some auxiliary staff on hand 24/7 to support lone children and to give exhausted parents a break would be bloody marvellous.

lemondrop1x · 09/02/2023 08:31

When I had my baby during covid they didn't allow my husband to be with me and I needed a shower after labour the midwives said they would look after baby while I showered soon as I got into the shower room I could hear a baby crying I went to check and it was my little with no midwives about even though they said they would sit with her so I ended up wheeling her cot into the shower room with me because they wasn't bothered that she was crying on her own! I hope your baby recovers and just let the other mother know x

kitcat15 · 09/02/2023 08:31

TheLadyofShalott1 · 09/02/2023 03:10

Believe me most of them (staff on children's wards) don't try very hard, at least not when a child's parent isn't there, and of course when they are there the staff don't need to.

I find it actually disgraceful how many babies and young children are left to cry their eyes out, and this is through personally being by my own children's sides over 30 years ago - one of my children had an illness that meant they had to frequently have stays in hospital when they were very young - and later, when I was a mature nurse (I took up nursing after all my children had started school) and worked on children's wards. Of course some of us cared passionately about our poor little charges, but we were far outnumbered by those to whom it seemed to be only a job.

When I first experienced the screaming babies @Tomblibooz when I was just a mum like you, staying with my child, I felt just as upset and helpless as you do (and yes I offered as well to go into the screaming babies, but was turned down because of the risk of cross infection, which was of course a possibility. I was all set to let the mum's know when they came back, just what happened when they weren't there. But I didn't say anything to them, and I still sometimes get bouts of guilt over that. I decided in the end to not say anything, because I thought what if the mother had no choice but to leave her little one, she might have other children at home that she had to get back to - I was lucky, I had my children's Dad, and my mum, to keep things at home ticking over, but I knew that an awful lot of mothers didn't have anyone they could depend on - so I was really torn about what to do. But now I wish I had told them, it wasn't my decision to make, and maybe the mum's could have sorted something out?

@negomi90 Not only did I have to take issue with you telling the OP "... believe me people try very hard." to console the babies, as you can only possibly know that that was what happened in the ward you were on, but also those are almost exactly the same words that the nurses would use to any mum - or dad - that came in to find their baby crying, and I had been there the whole time, so I knew it wasn't true!

Also negomi, babies need consoling arms and words no matter what reason they may have for feeling so upset. I presume that you are not a mother if you don't understand that fundamental fact. Even if all you are allowed to do is sit by their cot and touch them through protective sleeves through the side of the cot, a gentle but firm touch, and reassuring and loving words, will effect the baby positively, even if you can't pick up those signs. As far as I am concerned, both personally and professionally, that baby in the ward where the OP is, is almost certainly being neglected.

My very first sentence to you in my post here negomi, was almost as ridiculous as your whole post. I said it deliberately in the hope of making you think that, she (me, TheLadyofShalott) cannot possibly make a sweeping statement like that, about all or most of the staff on all children's wards, with the hope that it would make you realise that you can't either...

Unfortunately, I very much believe that what the poor OP, the poor baby, and what that other poor child who wanted to help were feeling, was entirely right. That baby should have never been left crying for so long, it just isn't justifiable.

Show quote history

Of course its justifiable 🙄.... there are really sick kids needed regular treatment....without which they could die....a crying baby who had had its needs met will not be a clinical priority.....if there's not the staff....there's not the staff....doesn't matter how much you 'care'.....you are talking shit

Untitledsquatboulder · 09/02/2023 08:32

Oh and should add that our ward had a parents room where tea, coffee, toast and cereal were provided (plus a fridge and microwave) so there was an effort to ensure no parent went hungry or thirsty.

Sirzy · 09/02/2023 08:32

when DS was 7 days into one of his longest admissions I remember a nurse saying to me “don’t forget when he gets discharged in a week or so he will still be very poorly but then you will be on your own” make sure you get some rest now when you can so your well enough to look after him.

she then pretty much wrestled me off the ward because she could see how physically and mentally exhausted I was. I was no help to anyone in hindsight. I was lucky my mum could step in for the night (and did a few more for me going forward) but if she hadn’t been able to I would have still had to go and rest because otherwise I would have ended up collapsing from the exhaustion and stress of it all.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 09/02/2023 08:32

BouncingWorms · 09/02/2023 00:19

I understand why you’d not be allowed, safeguarding and possible infection risk, although as a parent I’d be happy for you to. But I think the nurses should have been doing something, even if understaffed. If he needed milk or a nappy change I don’t see how they’re fulfilling their duty of care. If he just needed cuddles obviously that’s not possible but it sounds like they were just leaving him.

FFS, do you think they are sitting around, filing their nails? No one wants to leave a baby to cry. The poor nurses are probably really distressed about it too. But they have to prioritise the sickest patients. If your child was deteriorating dangerously, needed urgent medication or was in terrible pain, would you want the nurses to leave it, to attend to a baby who was crying, if the baby was not at risk?

Do report to PALS, OP, but report that the nurses were unable to assist the baby because the ward was understaffed.

Timeforanap02 · 09/02/2023 08:33

All the comments about I would never leave my baby. You have no idea what is wrong with people babies or how long they have been there for. At 4 months old we had already been in 4 months you don’t get fed or anything so as a single mum at the time I needed clothes / eat / shower / had to collect mail etc
we were in for 26 months in the end and trust me I’m sure there was people who judged me for my hour away.
the comment about in the day time when there is more nurses is not any better - during the day the ward o chaos there may be more nurses but there is also more procedures etc

rambunctiousrapscallion · 09/02/2023 08:34

Some not nice messages on this thread. All I will add is OP, you sound kind, I understand why you couldnt look after the baby but the world needs more people looking out for others in whatever way they can.

Second, for the love of god we have to support the nurses strike, do what is in our power to take the pressure off the NHS and demand radical changes to the systems within the NHS (Im not part of the NHS but fully support the strikes)

Rhondaa · 09/02/2023 08:35

I'm surprised when with 2 nurses they didn't have HCAs or similar. Or even a pram they could have stuck the baby in and rocked it whilst sat at the nurses station. Years ago when I was a student on a kids ward there'd always be a pram or pushchair somewhere for situations just like this.
It isn't ok leave a baby crying for an hour disturbing the whole ward, I'd complain to the ward manager. It isn't nice to complain about alleged hardworking staff but it seems the only way to for things to change.

Saltywalruss · 09/02/2023 08:37

You really mustn't record anything in a hospital!

BellatrixLestrangesHeatedCurlers · 09/02/2023 08:40

Hope your LO is doing OK @Tomblibooz

I would have been tempted to go in and soothe the baby too. It's natural.

safetyfreak · 09/02/2023 08:40

Please complain to PALS, do not feel discourage because of some people replies. Nothing will change if people don’t complain.

I think its disgusting the way the NHS treat young children and parents. I have read cases of women being unable to leave their babies and are left with no food or essential items. So I am not surprised some parents with limited support are having to leave their babies alone.

How is this acceptable? If a parent was doing this in their home, it would be classed as neglect?

EtonMessy · 09/02/2023 08:41

Rhondaa · 09/02/2023 08:35

I'm surprised when with 2 nurses they didn't have HCAs or similar. Or even a pram they could have stuck the baby in and rocked it whilst sat at the nurses station. Years ago when I was a student on a kids ward there'd always be a pram or pushchair somewhere for situations just like this.
It isn't ok leave a baby crying for an hour disturbing the whole ward, I'd complain to the ward manager. It isn't nice to complain about alleged hardworking staff but it seems the only way to for things to change.

OP states that the baby is in a side room so most probably infectious. Nurses would be unable to take the baby out onto the ward due to infection control !

tiredwardsister · 09/02/2023 08:50

Swiftswatch · 09/02/2023 08:14

@tiredwardsister how do you expect parents looking after their young children in hospital to even eat?
I spent a week and a half in with my 1 yo recently and another week shortly after and it was the worst month of my life.
Baby was in a bed hooked up to oxygen but would panic when she woke up or other kids cried and she would then try to climb out of the bed, not cot.
At one point it took 40 mins for me to get someone to help and make sure baby couldn’t fall out of the bed while I went to the bathroom. I genuinely almost had to wet myself on the ward.
Baby was wired up so couldn’t even bring her with me.

I ate probably once every 48 hours as I couldn’t leave her so had to wait until I could be brought food by DH.

By the end of the stay I needed 2 weeks off because I had run myself into the ground so much.

A hospital stay with a child is bad enough but it is truly awful with a baby.

In the ideal world Id love to have enough time to sit with. babies/children/teenagers whilst their parents had a break to eat take a shower or just had some time away.
But in the real world if Im lucky I have enough staff for children of all ages, usually we have 30 as we now overspill into another area. We are technically allowed only 2 HDU children but we usually have 4 sometimes 6. Thats meant to be 1 trained nurse for 2 HDU children but usually its 3 or 4 assuming that none are unstable. An unstable child will need one nurse or even 2 especially if they require intubation etc. A critically unwell child waiting to be retrieved to go to a specialist ITU will often go to adult ITU so a paeds nurse will to assist the nurses this happens now on a regular basis. Then we have all the other children obviously not all children are critically unwell but many have complex needs, we have an increasing number of mental health children many whom are sectioned or a high suicide risk and RMNs are also like hens teeth but these children are meant to be on a 1to1. Then we have safe guarding concerns about children, a trained nurse has to attend any meeting with social services the police etc these often go on for hours, children going to theatre children recovering for going to theatre, children with a huge range of medical conditions that require treating gone are the days when well children sat on wards "being observed". I rarely get a break, go to the loo or drink in fact Im not being truthful here I recently left my job (which I loved and was exceedingly good at) because the toll it was taking on my physical and mental health, I have a vast knowledge (acknowledged by everyone I worked with), and now do an easier job for less money still in the NHS (which I am totally committed too and believe in) where my sadly vast knowledge and experience of paediatrics is no longer being fully utilised but my MH is better but the my physical health will probably never recover.
So yes when I was a ward sister I would love to have had the tine to let parents go off the ward because I believe its not just about treating the child its about caring for the whole family but this is no longer possible.