to wonder about bystanders ( eg during assault on school girl in Ashford)

[whatchaos]

to wonder about the ethics of being a bystander, and wonder what the bystanders were doing during the appalling assault in Ashford (Surrey) when a schoolgirl was beaten up, the awful video shows a grown woman encouraging primary aged kids to get involved...but there are any number of bystanders including a man in a car, the school principal (at the end) and any number of other school kids including much older looking boys. Wondering if anyone here would have tried to intervene to stop the fight or encouraged their children to intervene in cases like this?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-10-among-five-arrested-29158603

We have groups of travellers around our area and it's the same they behave in a way that's absolutely appalling, intimidating road users when pony/trap racing, smashing up the local pubs, robbing oil from households to name a few...no matter if police are called they don't turn up.

My DC often ask why they behave as they do and always get the same answer...

Because they can.

Where I live if you worried about what group you were gonna piss off then you'd never intervene in anything. In my experience of intervening and seeing others intervene (and seeing plenty of standing by) people that intervene haven't stood there thinking about it. They see something and they react to it. The people that think about it for a minute become the bystanders.

Travellers are not held to the same rules as others are. You'd risk your life if you intervened, and further retaliation.

Its got nothing to do with travellers, they are no more likely to attack you then any other gang.

People who fight in gangs in the street are scum and behave like it, look at Gary Newlove? kicked like a football according to the judge who sentenced the youths who turned on him after he asked them not to vandalise vehicles, they weren't travellers and there has been many more since.

Then you have that Norfolk farmer, Tony Martin, repeatedly burgled, in the end, used a gun because the Police wouldn't defend his property, he got a life sentence.

I think we need to understand that people have their own experiences, personalities, difficulties etc. Those by standers aren’t necessarily bad people. Though obviously it’s better if people feel able to intervene and help when others are at risk not everyone is able to. I’m absolutely useless in an emergency because I have a freeze response and genuinely don’t know what to do. I’d feel comfortable shouting or calling for help, I’m not sure where I’d start with a physical altercation, because I’ve never had one. I’ve literally never been hit or hit someone else.

I personally would like guidance on what to do if you come across someone being attacked by a group. Is there a way to approach it that makes it more likely to deescalate rather than escalate?

I obviously hope if I ever get attacked someone would help me. However im
not sure how we foster the skills that people need to feel able to intervene.

I would absolutely have stepped in to help that poor girl. I couldn’t live with the guilt of not doing so.

What would have done if they had then turned on you?

The only people in the world who’s safety and wellbeing are my responsibility are myself and my children (and to a certain extent DH). I would not insert myself into a dangerous situation and put myself into potentially serious harm’s way for anyone else, sorry. Other people’s parents have been killed trying to break up random teenager’s fights.

In truth, I don’t know. Having said that, I have stepped in before in several situations like this, plus I used to work on rather doors so I am probably more confident than most.

And all those teenagers in those fights are somebody’s child. Wouldn’t you want someone to step in if that was your daughter having her hair ripped out and getting kicked in the head? Don’t you think we all have a responsibility here?

Please, before you pontificate on this specific incident, understand that some of us know the area, know the community involved.

I've stopped when it was a bodybuilder beating his girlfriend, I would NOT have intervened in this one except to drive away and call the police who may well have turned up mob handed

School staff did what was needed and calmly and efficiently put a stop to it withiuy causing the situation to escalate. I don't know what else anyone expected of them.

Local bystanders will have understood exactly who the people involved were and that in addition to the (significant) risk of getting hurt during the attack they would very likely be the target of reprisals afterwards. I don't believe anyone who says they would have waded in knowing their family and home would be targeted as a result

There was absolutely nothing efficient about the school staff’s approach to this.

Not on school property, not their responsibility.

Are you familiar with Philip Lawrence?

What scum they are.

@RiktheButler Yes of course I have. That doesn’t mean that we should all do nothing.

People are quick to judge and say they’d intervene and while I think some would I think the majority wouldn’t have done. The fear of someone pulling a knife on you is a very real fear these days. Don’t think for one second the adults/ scumbags encouraging the fight wouldn’t have jumped in bad someone tried to intervene.

And I am pleased to say I put myself in the first category.

1. Philip Lawrence was my teacher when I was 11/12
2. I have stopped to intervene in fights before, including when the assailant was a bodybuilder
3. I used to work in social housing covering this exact area. More red flags for properties in Stanwell/Ashford than the whole of the rest of my patch (37,000 properties)

No way I would have intervened. Not a fucking chance

Tony Martin served 3 years, for shooting someone with an unlicensed firearm, having previously shot at someone for scrumping (which is why his licence was revoked), but let's not let the facts get in the way.

But that aside, the fear in this situation isn't "just" of being harmed during the attack it's of sustained reprisals afterwards too.

@RiktheButler I too know and work in that area with various different user groups. You wouldn’t have intervened, I would have done. There’s really no more to say on it. We all have different levels of what we deem acceptable personal risk and I would have assessed my decision as the right one. You may well disagree- and that’s fine too.

I find it really questionable that a person would actually stand there filming this sort of stuff for entertainment. My partner was sent it on a Wattsapp group and wanted to show it to me. When I told him to fuck away from me with his depraved videos his sick mates at work send each other because they are all sick in the fucking head he seemed oddly offended. Pillock.

I’ve always been too scared to directly get involved in violent altercations, but I have made sure people know there’s a witness and that I’m calling the police. An ex partner of mine once intervened as we were walking home late at night in Manchester once - a HUGE steroidy looking man was being physically and verbally abusive to his partner in an alleyway. My ex (a really petite woman) was so brave, I think about it frequently now almost 10 years later and try to work out what I could do to be like her in that kind of situation. There’s always a balancing act with circumstances though.

Dh tried to stop a man beating up his girlfriend on the street once.

A week in hospital and rebuilt jaw for doing so.

My mind just goes to the man who was attacked with a Samurai sword in my hometown by 2 teenagers. His colleague tried to intervene and has lose the use of his hand. You never know what kids have got on them.