to wonder about bystanders ( eg during assault on school girl in Ashford)

[whatchaos]

to wonder about the ethics of being a bystander, and wonder what the bystanders were doing during the appalling assault in Ashford (Surrey) when a schoolgirl was beaten up, the awful video shows a grown woman encouraging primary aged kids to get involved...but there are any number of bystanders including a man in a car, the school principal (at the end) and any number of other school kids including much older looking boys. Wondering if anyone here would have tried to intervene to stop the fight or encouraged their children to intervene in cases like this?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-10-among-five-arrested-29158603

*we not hurting anyone

I'm not convinced there is a specific UK problem of not getting involved. If you Google there are lots of examples of people in the UK getting involved and being injured or even killed themselves.

This is sad. My instinct is always to get involved but DH worries that one day something like what happened to this girl will happen, I'll get involved and get hurt.

But it's all the people who don't want to get involved that stood by and watched while a similar, albeit less serious, incident happened with DS. I will never look at the people who were there and did nothing in the same way ever again. This attitude of self preservation before anything else is, in my opinion, a reason why our society doesn't always function so well. The man who DID step in has my gratitude for life.

I was in this situation a few years ago. Driving along and saw a huge crowd. When I got closer I could see a group of teenage girls beating one girl - there were adults there too.

I did get out my car and break them up and the mother of one of the girls did try and attack me for doing so. Luckily I'm pretty handy with my fists and a gobby cow too so I told her if she wants to fight she should pick on someone her own size - ie me. Strangely enough she didn't want to do that. The police were called and I drove the girl who had been beaten up home and called her mum for her.
I also followed the other woman and her kid home so I had an address to give to the police. She was later charged

I waded into a group of lads who were pushing around a older man who obviously off his head on spice. This was Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester where sadly this isn't unusual.

The lads were drunk and laughing. I shouted and they started to give me verbals and threatened me. But to be fair another couple came over too and they backed off. Afterwards I thought i could have been hurt. But I'd do it again

Filming is evidence gathering so I don't judge people who only did that.

I would have intervened, and have done before when I witnessed a lone man being beaten by a group (football related violence).

I'd want someone to intervene if it was my child so I'd be a hypocrite if I wouldn't do the same.

Exactly what is wrong with people's attitudes in the UK today. How could anyone decent just stand back and do nothing

Stabbed. Arrested for allegedly assaulting a minor. Comeback from the families.

Just read all the comments, I appreciate I don't know the area and families though so who knows.

It goes without saying that I would hand over all footage to the police and it would NOT go on the internet.

Please be careful doing this. I'm not in the UK but only a few weeks ago in my town someone went out to intervene/break up a fight in front of his neighbours.
They left, he and another neighbour got the man help needed.
A few hours later they came back but this time to the neighbours house broke in and beat the shit out of him, all because he 'helped'. Not worth it if you have kids or others in the house

Not worth it if you have kids or others in the house

I understand this mindset but instinctively I disagree. That's someone else's child being attacked. If adults routinely stepped in to help other children, your children would b benefit too.

That is horrifying! Yes there is certain a risk and it’s greater now than it was. Too many adults not taking responsibility for their actions and not teaching their dc to be responsible. They’re not afraid of the police or the justice system.

Apparently ‘racially aggrevated’

apple.news/AqGKwWPR5RhWi_vhZZJYnwA

Knowing the area there's no way I would have intervened. Horrible place

In that case there's fear that they'll be next. I'd probably get away asap and call the police where I didn't think I would be heard.

However there's also the bystander effect where no one intervenes until one person does, then everyone else does.
I remember one time a tree had come down over a main exit road to our estate. I came up as lots of people stood around looking at the tree, when it had been down a short time. I knew one of the men did a lot of DIY so I asked him if he had a saw so we could try and cut some of the smaller branches off, in the hope that would make it easier to move.
As soon as he came out with it, several other bystanders went off and came back with tools themselves and within half an hour, the tree was cut up and off the road.
They'd all been at the tree looking at it without doing anything until one person started doing something, then they all joined in.

I have intervened a couple of times in my area - which has zero traveller population - once a group of teenage boys were beating another so I went over, stopped it and accompanied the victim back to his school (this was about 8.30 in the morning).
The other time I was walking a friend's dog and upon entering the park saw a group of school age kids surrounding a smaller group of teenage girls who were beating on 1 smaller girl, went on over and it quickly became apparent that 2 Mums had organised it and became very aggressive towards me, if I hadn't have had a large rottweiler with me barking her head off (soft as a marshmallow but sounds like cujo when she's nervous) I probably would have got beaten up.
There were also a couple nearby who told me to 'leave it'.
It seems like the girl being beaten had been arguing with one of the other girls in school and the parents thought this was the most appropriate way to deal with it.

Knowing the particulars of this situation though I'd be calling the police from the sidelines.
It's very saddening to think that in reality there will be no real consequences for the adults or kids involved.
Really the kids of those parents should be removed and raised by someone who doesn't behave like feral scum but it won't happen.

The main girl doing the attacking is also being charged under the malicious communications act, so it hasn't just been an argument. It's being treated as a racially aggravated attack and the parents are being charged with child neglect on top of encouraging the attack.
I don't think that this is as simple as the bystander effect. It's because it's travellers and if you take one on, you take them all on. People's houses and cars would be at risk. It looks like someone did go and get the school staff members though.

This is good to hear. That poor girl.
I'm glad the police are actually taking some action. With travellers they usually take a step back as it costs too much/ need to many officers to make an arrest.

I wouldn't get involved and would wait until I was a little bit away from the crowd so they couldn't hear to ring the police.
Couple of years ago I did get involved and I got threatened with a knife and punched, so not doing that again and will leave the policd to it

There's another thread about this. I sat for you to post, judging. But the place is well known for being problematic. And therefore people don't step in because they are too frightened of the repercussions, their children, parents, others targeted. So before you judge make sure you are aware of all the facts.

Does anyone think that people seem to want to blame everyone except the family involved? I saw a TV news report where people were blaming the school. I'm sure they are doing their best and when people plan an attack they are hardly going to inform the school first. We don't know if the victims were too scared of reprisals to tell the school of any threats leading up to it. (Likely.) There's people saying that people passing are a disgrace not to wade in and fight off a family of travellers.
Is it because they know they won't get reprisals for criticising passers by and school staff but they will if they criticise the actual attackers on TV?

When I was teaching I intervened between pupils younger than that. In the moment one just carried on and I, despite restraint training, ended up with a chipped tooth and bruised ribs. It shook me up a lot, I wouldn’t do it again. Especially not with multiple children and adults involved. I’d call the police and announce I’d done so, shout to stop… but from a safe distance

I wouldn't physically intervene, you can say it's self preservation, but it's also knowing my own physical limitations and I am never going to come off well in a fight - basically I'm not going to be stopping anything, but will get hurt. I'll go round the corner and call the police though.

Saying that, you never know. I'd never have said that my DM would intervene, but I remember as a child coming up the steps onto the platform to catch a train home, and there was a group of (probably) teenagers having a fight. My DM waded in, grabbed one of the lads by the hair and yanked him away. Everything calmed down then, and there were a lot of people around.

I'm not sure what you expected older boys to do. I've always told my boys to not physically get involved but ask for help, police etc. Why are you expecting children/teens to put themselves at risk?