to wonder about bystanders ( eg during assault on school girl in Ashford)

[whatchaos]

to wonder about the ethics of being a bystander, and wonder what the bystanders were doing during the appalling assault in Ashford (Surrey) when a schoolgirl was beaten up, the awful video shows a grown woman encouraging primary aged kids to get involved...but there are any number of bystanders including a man in a car, the school principal (at the end) and any number of other school kids including much older looking boys. Wondering if anyone here would have tried to intervene to stop the fight or encouraged their children to intervene in cases like this?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-10-among-five-arrested-29158603

Probably but if it got them off the girl then that's fine in my eyes.

@Bluevelvetsofa

Cross purposes.

If we as a society don't demand that the families like the one we saw in action toe the line then we all suffer.

By allowing parents to use and raise children without any morals as mere fighting dogs we allow them to exist in a two tier society. We say your children are not worth the same as ours who we apply UK and indeed un rights of the child laws too.

Eg the children of some travellers or other groups are worth less.

We must instead hold them all the same standards as we expect nationally.

We must make sure that children are protected and not bred to fight.

NotTerfNorCis · Yesterday 20:16

Rafferty10 · Yesterday 17:43

Christ, l have just watched this horrifying assault, and am even more disgusted by the adults who just stood and watched, and the Head wandering up like it was nothing to do with him.

WTF is WRONG with people, l would have intervened.

The head walked in and stopped the attack. What did you expect him to do, leap in and start punching people? He did well to get there so fast, because this was 100 metres away from the school.

Don't be obtuse, re the punching people comment, he walked up so slowly it was unreal.

This is very shortsighted comment. Tax payers money will be spent on these children in any event, and if they end up in a youth offending institution or in prison the cost will be even greater.

It's would be much more cost effective to prevent these type of offences and to work towards integrating them into society so they can actually contribute. How though, is the question no one seems to able to answer.

he walked up so slowly it was unreal

He was keeping the situation calm. And it worked.

He can't have been too slow coming from the school itself. Someone had to tell him about the fight and he had to leave the school to attend, all in about 3 minutes.

None of us can say what we would or would not have done in the spur of the moment. I witnessed an road rage incident which resulted in a serious injury and despite first aid etc training I went totally to pieces and couldn’t even work out how to dial 999 on my mobile.

They won't end up in prison though. Travellers seem to be above the law, the police are afraid of them. These people don't want to be part of society, they just do not give a fuck. If you'd had any experiences with them you'd know this.

I've had my share of experiences, I just wanted to say that one way or the other, the taxpayer is picking up the bill.

I don't know what could be done about it.

For a start, by removing children from abusive parents like that woman.

...and putting them where exactly? into childrens homes where they can disappear, trafficked, county lines etc etc? and should they survive all of that, they get dumped by the system at 18.

We don't spend anything like enough on early interventions or on childrens services.

Hence the problems get passed to Teachers... quite why anyone thinks teachers should get involved in violent conflicts is beyond me.. they are teachers not bouncers or police officers.

In China it is very common not to intervene because the law suits that follow can mean you lose everything you have. In the UK there is also a risk of being sued so although being a good Samaritan can be wise (I have taken an abandoned toddler to a police station once ) that is not always so. Also even adverts to recruit police give examples of a situation and ask can you tell who is in the wrong and who is doing what - because it can be complicated. Given the risks in our UK at present if you say or do anything to a minority group whether black (2% of UK) or traveller (about 0.1%) and how easy it is to get it wrong and have the full weight of all kinds of things coming down on your heads people know how life changing it can be if you put a single foot wrong in those kinds of danger areas. That does not mean it is morally wrong not to protect a poor girl who is out numbered in a fight but it is understandable.

Having watched the video with the sound turned on - not a chance I'd intervene.

@Alexandra2001

I completely agree.

The point is by allowing culture to trump the laws of the land we say to those children, you don't matter

Interesting that the police expressed disappointment with bystanders - does that mean they think someone should have intervened?
'On Friday, Chief Inspector Dallas McDermott of Surrey Police described the incident as 'disturbing' and said he is 'disappointed' with the reaction of the public in the video.'

They would have been quick enough to arrest anyone who in their opinion used too much force! or anyone who intervened then killed would have then been criticised by the Police, maybe they should do their job and ans 999 calls promptly?

I would assume he meant the filming etc rather than encouraging have a go heroes.

If the police had been doing their job properly they wouldn't have needed the public to act in a less "disappointing" way.

Recording an incident on your phone is a natural reaction for some people when they are faced with a strange/frightening incident. It's a way of feeling like you are taking some kind of action, a form of action that is comfortable for you. I personally don't see anything wrong with it provided it is being done to record evidence, obviously sharing it for entertainment is a bit twisted.

It would be helpful if rather than criticising the public for behaving in a certain way the Chief Inspector detailed exactly what they should have done instead. Do they want people to physically intervene and break the fight up? If so, will they be protected or will they end up being questioned and having their lives disrupted?

Personally I would never get involved in a fight that didn't involve someone known to me being attacked. I've walked past a few incidents in the street before, I stayed out of it when my former neighbours assaulted one another (he hit her once, she hit him another time, both times the assaulter was arrested and back home in a few hours).

I think the turning point for me was when I read (in an actual printed local newspaper, which shows how long ago it was) about a woman being sought by police for grabbing a child outside a school. The article detailed her appearance etc and urged anyone who knew her to contact the police. Her suspected "crime" was to pull a child out from the path of a reversing lorry when they had tripped over running behind it. That was it - no other suggestion of wrongdoing, just preventing them being crushed to death.

No stranger's life is worth risking my own for, nor do I think it worth risking arrest or police investigation for. I'll phone 999 and I'll record evidence from a safe distance, but the rest I'll leave to those who are paid to intervene.