to wonder about bystanders ( eg during assault on school girl in Ashford)

[whatchaos]

to wonder about the ethics of being a bystander, and wonder what the bystanders were doing during the appalling assault in Ashford (Surrey) when a schoolgirl was beaten up, the awful video shows a grown woman encouraging primary aged kids to get involved...but there are any number of bystanders including a man in a car, the school principal (at the end) and any number of other school kids including much older looking boys. Wondering if anyone here would have tried to intervene to stop the fight or encouraged their children to intervene in cases like this?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-10-among-five-arrested-29158603

I’m pregnant and an older woman verbally abused me at a bus station the other day. She was angry that her bus was late (probably mentally ill). I’m very small and felt intimidated as she kept getting closer to me, pointing at me and shouting. She pushed me. The bus station was fairly busy and no one (staff or the public) stepped in to help me. I was really shaken and no one asked if I was ok.

You train your ‘civil courage’ - I’ve put a link below to a training leaflet about this very thing. It is geared specifically towards hate attacks but can be used in many situations.

its really about practicing scenarios in your head - if you think about it, people who do jobs like air stewards, nurses, even police don’t naturally know what to do - yes, they may be more confidant personality-wise but they have been trained and repeatedly made to go through the motions. Not all situations are safe to intervene in, I agree, but knowing ahead of time what level of intervention you are willing to action is useful.

I currently have no dependents. I have intervened, I have been lucky not to have been hurt but I also know I would again - my choice, my risk assessment.

I know what it’s like.

When I was 16, I was sitting at a bus stop and a man put his penis in my face for a few seconds and was laughing. He wasn’t discreet.

Bus stop was packed. People saw and afterwards buried their heads in newspapers or looked away.

Not one person stopped him, said anything or asked if I was okay afterwards.

Whoops - link
s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/unitedfia.org/wp-media-folder-united-for-intercultural-action/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/LeafletCourageA4.pdf

I was born in a rough area and know many of the crime families thru infamy. I never got involved. And never would.
One of the young men, at the grand age of 23, was trying to steal a bike from someone and beat them in the town centre in front of everyone, a guy intervened and was stabbed.

Now I live in an area with a large Traveller population. My friend intervened after a group of them started on one guy, she ended up in a&e.

Take yourself some place safe, video if needs be, and call the police. Don't ever endanger yourself.

And fwiw, I have been there being assaulted in the street and no one intervened. Fact was had someone intervened, I'd have got it alot worse later on.

Well, i'd suggest that unless you have relevant self defence skills, then you re being foolish.

You also have a responsibility to your partner/children/loved ones and if you re lying on the ground being stamped on, you re no good to anyone, least of all the original victim.

@WhatTrophy The point is, as i ve found out and Martin did too, get involved and the law will not be on your side, what was TM meant to do? ask them politely to stop robbing him?

Martin was driven to act the way he did because the Police could not or would not protect his property, he eventually got a manslaughter charge because it was recognised he was driven to what he did.

@pissssedofff as I said, you make your decisions and I will make mine. It doesn’t make me foolish, it makes me think that I am doing the right thing. I am sure if it was your child getting their head kicked in you would be grateful if someone intervened. I doubt you would label them “foolish” then.

A certain community should not be allowed to behave however they like because everyone is scared of reprisals. Who the hell do they think they are?

It was a disgusting attack and that women egging the fight on should be hanging her head in shame but because they are allowed to get away with it or people are too frightened they will get more and more powerful..

Travellers don’t live or operate by the same rules as the rest of us. They do not fear the law and to the police are shit scared of them. I’m not from the area where this incident took place but do live near a large traveller community and the stories I could tell about the things I’ve seen over the years would shock you. They are also very quick to cry racism despite being horrifically racist themselves (witnessed with my own eyes on numerous occasions).

If you did you very well likely would be dead now. Travellers do not like people getting involved in their 'issues'. They would turn on you as well as your family.
The problem is the police find it very hard to press charges or get cases against them to court. There is a lot of witness intimidation.
Even arresting them police are hesitant. They can't just go to the campsites with 3 or 4 officers. My police friend has told me it's like a military operation as they know if they arrest one traveller on the site they will be attacked.

I have got involved and broken up fights in my home town, usually in the centre on a night out, although once was on my way to work one morning when two homeless guys were beating up another one. Loads of people were watching, no one phoned the police or backed me up. I did think as I walked over yelling that someone would support me as often it takes one person to get other people to move.

I don't know if I'd get involved in this case though. Looking at what people have said about the area, I guess if you live there then you know the history and likelihood of repercussions etc. It's a sad thing that some people know they can get away with being violent thugs just cause everyone is scared of them and their gang - this goes for gangs of kids, as well as gangs of travellers or any other packs of feral twats.

Exactly. From young ages Travellers are taught to resolve their differences by fighting. That is their culture.

I am worried how this situation is going to play out. The black community are quite rightly disgusted at this racist attack and want justice. At the moment their anger is aimed at the teachers but this will eventually be aimed at the travelling community which could turn very nasty.

This is really good thanks. I like the tips like addressing other by standers directly. Seems to give a guide for intervening without running over and getting involved in the fight.

no surprise bystanders weren’t getting involved given who the attackers were (a fact that doesn’t seem to be being properly reported in the media).

if I was a teacher id think very carefully about getting involved too. Unfortunately

The teachers aren't to blame at all. It's disgusting they're being criticised for this.

Glad to hear the attackers got arrested. That woman deserves jail time.

I would have got involved, even if it was just shouting at them and ringing the police.

I would have tried to protect the girl in whatever way I could and I would hope anyone with a young daughter would do the same, as that could have been your daughter being attacked so brutally.

Fights like this do sometimes happen in school or on the way home and it would be horrible to think that people allow it to happen because they’re scared of the repercussions - stopping a fight isn’t going to cause the traveller community to attack or kill you.

There was enough adults around to have stopped it much sooner.

The worst person was the adult woman encouraging it.

As I understand it the headteacher watched it all. There is currently a petition to have him removed from his post and I totally support it. When he did eventually intervene he showed no assertiveness, empathy or concern. He strolled over very casually as If he were splitting up a minor verbal disagreement.

The people in the cars looked as if they were entertained, if they didn’t feel confident enough to help why not move on and call the cops…why stop and spectate like that?

that said of course the main culprit is that disgusting mother/woman orchestrating it all.

@Cocobutt i could not agree more. No wonder we are in the state we are, with so many people prepared to ignore this type of thing.

@AutumnDaysConkers thats not always the case, and I can tell you that from first hand experience. I have visited several traveller sites on my own as part of my role, and I am still here to tell the tale.

I wonder if the petition involves the man who spoke to a rally in paramilitary uniform...

Why should a headmaster risk his life outside his school?

@MinceandMash glad you’ve mentioned this. I seen a news piece recently where travellers lifted the language of racial oppression most commonly used by black communities in America and Europe and applied it to themselves, positioning themselves as victims whining that ‘only traveller racism is socially acceptable’ hah - as if more visible POC don’t still face massive amounts of racism and unlike travellers most cannot blend in as much even if they wanted!!

Personally as a POC one of the most racist incidents I’ve experienced as an adult was from a traveller aged six surrounded by older males. I don’t blame the kid but she clearly got it from her family.

i know many other POC have similar stories at the hands of that community . I also know a traveller disowned by his family/community for marrying a black woman. Travellers really need to own up to their own racism.

No wonder we are in the state we are, with so many people prepared to ignore this type of thing.

I completely agree.

I bet if it was their child being bullied or attacked at school they would want someone to step in and put a stop it.

I don’t know who began the petition but what I do know is that the headmaster was seemingly unbothered and apathetic about it all. There is no way I’d have behaved like that when I was an educator.

You’re taking about him risking his life, a small teenage girl was getting her head stamped on - what about her life? As an adult male and as an educator who probably knew her (if she’s his student) I’d expect him to have at the very least shouted over at them with some urgency in his voice a few seconds into this pile up. And even when he went over he really didn’t look upset or sympathetic. Very cold and odd behaviour!

I have made this exact point twice upthread and strangely enough, had no response.