I’m stopping them being grandparents apparently but I don’t know what else I can do?

[MediationNotWorking]

DC is 8, and the only grandchild of my parents.

I am divorced and DC spends EOWend Friday to Sunday with ExH, this is court ordered. ExH refuses to see DC in the week so this is their only time together. I do not ask for a change to contact unless I have a very specific valid reason and can “repay” the contact at a later date.

I work FT across 4 days, ExH pays no maintenance because on paper he earns nothing at all (he lives on fresh air – or more likely out of his parents bank accounts). I use my day off to do appointments for DCs medical condition.
I feel like I hardly see DC in term time/the week. They’re in breakfast club every morning from 7.30am, and then 2 nights a week stay late at school for clubs, they also do scouting one another night a week – I would never ever stop these, DC loves them and gets so much out of them plus it would be being stopped for selfish reasons.

But that means EOWend is protected time. I want to spend time with my DC, take them places or help with their homework or just chill out at home because I basically pay to sleep there in the week.

I know this is typical for many single parents.

My parents hate it. They’re not together anymore so I already have to split myself in two sometimes as they won’t be in a room together. I try and see them both 1 Saturday a month for a couple of hours, sometimes that’s during the weekends DC is with their dad, sometimes I have DC with me.

Both have said it’s disgusting, I should be letting DC stay overnight with them and if that interferes with their contact with their dad then so be it because ExH refuses to do any of the grunt work. They tell me regularly that no-one is going to take DC off me because I stop them going to see ExH.

They’ve also both tried to petition the court for access to DC, 1 overnight a month each and 1 overnight every week of school holidays (so 1 each at October, February and June half terms, 2 nights each at Christmas and Easter, and 6 nights each in the summer). My dad also asked that he be allowed to take DC away for 1 week every year and that it would have to be during term time as he won’t go away in holidays.

It didn’t go to court but there was mediation and neither parent could understand why I can’t commit anymore time than I have. Neither of them have seen DC since Christmas (Mum Christmas Day dad Christmas Eve) because I’ve
just not got the time, I feel like I’m constantly trying to catch my breath and never see my own DC. I have refused both proposals.

Both have said I am stopping them from being proper grandparents, and dads threatened to “cut me off forever with no going back” if I don’t commit to the level of contact he wants.

I will add the mediator both times tell them that I should not ignore the CAO, and they (different ones for mum and dad) did not advise me to do that as it could land me seeing DC even less – and both shouted at the mediator saying it wasn’t fair to them. No resolution was reached in mediation for either.

So what can I do? I can’t do much else? But this stress is crippling me, I need a resolution. Any ideas? I have mediation again next week with one and the week after with the other.

Wow I was going to say that if you wanted to make it work, you would, but then I read about how nuts they are so I don't think you owe them anything.

If they wanted to see your kid more they would be round making you both dinner and spending nice chill time all together. This "Not with you" thing is super weird.

Personally even if you gave in to their unreasonable demands, would it be enough, or would they then want more? Your DC is growing and may not want to spend that time with them but with you or friends. Ignore and do what you can, if it's not good enough, you are better off without them.

As I read through your post, I got more and more shocked by their behaviour. I cannot believe what they have both, separately, put you through, on top of your separation and court dealings with your ex husband.

In all of that, I hope that you have someone on your side who listens just to you - not to how to meet the medical and emotional needs of your child, the requirements of your child's father who refuses to be an equal parent but demands time at the weekends only and your parents who sound like they have no idea how to be parents to you.

The to-do list will never be done. Everyone's needs will never be met. Put yourself first and take some time in those few hours on the day your son is in school to lay all of those other burdens down and just find some quiet, just for you.

Step away, do not engage, ignore their demands. You owe them nothing and your child will be fine if they do not have a relationship with these people, who are unable to meet the needs of their own child.

If you want to spend time with them, then offer that... with your child, if that is convenient. If their help would be useful in the school holidays, give them options that suit you but have back up plans in case they pull out. Invite them to join you on holiday if you enjoy spending time in their company, but on your terms. Make it clear that it is on your terms and that you are asking for their love, support and help as a family, you and your child and that you are not offering to bypass yourself in this relationship and give them access to your child.

Remind them, if you need to, that you are their child and that you are the parent to your child and those lines are firm. If they cannot respect your position as the parent of your child and cannot offer support as your parent, then they forfeit the opportunity to develop the kind of relationship they envisage with their grandchild. They have no rights to that relationship, it comes only if they respect their relationship with you and if your child wants to have that relationship.

No, they are being massively controlling. They cannot justify taking time away from the kids father, to have the kids. Parents rights trumps the grandparents. I would offer for them to come and visit in the week, or to collect from school and drop off at school the next morning. That seems like a good compromise. You're working full time and have household duties. Not to mention you want to actually spend time with them, before they go to bed.

Tell them straight grandparents have no rights and any relationship they do have with your dc is out of courtesy not court ordered. Are they seriously putting their wants over your dc's rights to have a relationship with their df?
They can visit you or fuck off would be my suggestion..

Stop indulging this bullshit. You don’t have to mediate with them and they wouldn’t be able to apply court. You’re wasting time and money with this pair of thick fucks who are emotionally abusing you.

Red bloody flag, they'd be kept away from my kids!

They are both utterly batshit.

They have seen that you're in a difficult situation and they've thought fuck that, it's about what I want.

They've gone nuclear (taking you to court??) rather than any kind of attempt at sorting it another way (like PPs have said, they could have offered to take DC to scouts, come round for dinner, pick up from school etc).

What happens if you do let them see DC on their own and then DC won't do exactly what they want?

They are selfish, cruel, and up their own arses. Sorry.

😨WTAF? Jesus Christ, no! That would be mental!

I've been threatened with being excluded/cut off from the family from a very young age; it was part of my stepfather's way of controlling me from age 6 onwards. I used to be cowed by that threat out fear of being lost without a family, how could I survive as a child out on the streets? Then the fear becomes part of you and even as an adult you get the fear but you don't know why.

Anyway, one day he pulled the same line with Mrs Unicorn next to me because I wouldn't do what he wanted me to, and she, quick as a falsh, replied with, "well, it would be sad if you wanted to cut yourself off from our family, but it's up to you. We're a family now." Stepfather didn't know how to reply, but suffice to say he didn't dare to cut himself off from us, because he suddenly realised that the children mattered more to us than he did.

Remember that your children are worth far more to you than your parents. If your father or both parents threaten to cut you off, I'd suggest the same approach Mrs Unicorn's - turn it round on them:

• I'll cut you off if you don't let me see my grandchild more, and in the way I want!
• No, you'll be cutting yourself off from the rest of us, and you'll see your grandchild even less, i.e. never. We'll continue to live just as we do right now, if anything with less stress...

Then you can give him/them the 2 options, carry on as now and be grateful, or never see you and his/their grandchild.

Finally, I would never leave my children alone with a grandparent if I'm having to go through a mediator to talk to them!

what horrible people!
there would be ways to include them during school holidays, if they were nice people, but forcing you into mediation and threatening court action when you are already under such pressure is simply deranged. absolutely under no circumstances does someone get access to my DC who "only wants to see the DC, not me" - of course trusted friends and family who we see regularly may sometimes look after DC without me if I am busy but that would never be because they didn't want to see me.

low contact. you don't need this agro.

PS grandparents have no automatic right of access to see grandchildren. If they think they'll get anything from a court action, they'll just see their bank balance go down.

raydensolicitors.co.uk/areas/grandparents-legal-rights-uk/

I think if they're honestly prepared to cut you off for not getting their own way when they know you're tying them I'd let them crack in. They sound very toxic.

Wow you have horrible parents! I am so sorry for you. My only advice is to put yourself and your DC first and stop all contact with your parents. They aren’t being good grandparents as they are so nasty to their grandchildren’s parent (they clearly don’t value their relationship with you their daughter). No contact. You don’t owe them a thing at this point.

Am I right in thinking that you can just not agree to mediation? It's unlikely they could actually take you to court and 'win'. I would not attend the mediation and go low contact. Your parents sound horrible.

The priorities in your child’s life should be

DC being a healthy child (tick)
DC getting an education and enjoying his clubs and social activities ( tick)
You being his mum (tick)
Dad being his dad ( small tick, could do better)

His GPs being his GPS. They don’t need to physically see your DC every week, weekend, or even month, millions of kids have GPS who live far away and maintain healthy and happy relationships online, by calling, Skyping etc. ( no tick, must try harder)

Good god. As if you've not got enough on with what sounds like a fairly inflexible exH who doesn't take any responsibility for the actual parenting bit.
Stop engaging in this nonsense. Cancel mediation and stop letting them bully you.

if they make that demand when you go to mediation, they’ll shoot themselves in the foot because it’s bonkers and there’s nothing they could come up with to justify it. If you’ve also invited them to come during the week and they’ve refused, even more so. Hopefully it will be evident to the mediator that they’re making things more difficult for you, and that will be an end to their demands. I’d be inclined to go NC for a while to give yourself a rest. Good luck.

The first time my parent tried to use the courts to get access to my child would be the last time they spent any time with myself or my child.

I bet at least 9/10 of these grandparents who go to court for access are the last sorts of people you'd want around your children.

You don't seem quite as shocked/concerned about this as I'd expect, OP - have they always been like this? I don't mean that as a dig, I just wonder if you're not seeing quite how bizarre this is because it's been a lifelong pattern.

It's really strange that they think it'd be appropriate for them to force you legally/via mediation to see your child, and the insistence on doing so alone is very odd.

Your parents don't sound like people I would have anywhere near my children, frankly. The obsessiveness with getting your child alone and the way they feel entitled to time with your child is very, very strange. I know I've said that a couple of times but in case your past experience with them has blurred what is and isn't normal - your parents threatening to take you to court over access to YOUR child IS NOT NORMAL. Them insisting on holidays alone with your child to the point of petitioning the course for it is not normal. Them saying they should get access over their father, and asking you to break court-ordered contact to facilitate it is (unless their father was dangerous etc) not normal.

This 👆
Fuck those unsupportive bastards and cut them off first

They are both abusing you.
Don't give in because they will ask for more and more.
I would not be anllowing any unsupervised access. People as toxic as this are not good for children. They will start using him to abuse you too. For example they will drip poison about you and the other grandparent and brainwash him into thinking that you are preventing contact.

You are his parent and know what's best for your son. 2 activity nights and 3 for medical appointments sounds very reasonable. Invite them to yours for dinner. They can take it or leave it.

Why are you engaging with this legal shit? Grandparents don't have rights and they are using the legal system to abuse you. Don't let them. If your dad wants to cut you off then let him go and strop.

The one thing that I wouldn't do is go against the CAO. It's not your ex's fault that your parents are batshit and you'll be creating conflict with him (and the courts if he uses the legal channels) which is going to be worse as you risk seeing your son even less.

I know you are probably under Fear-Obligatiom-Guilt but take control so you and your son can live a happy life.

They're insane ! My children have literally zero time with most grandparents without me there (my two dc from my first marriage get some as ex often leaves one or both with his parents overnight on his Once a month contact). Grandparents get to not do the grunt work, they're not immediate family and as for not wanting to see you - ignore the threats over money. Point out they've already cut you off emotionally and leave it to them to figure out your family is you plus your dc and not them!

Good grief I had read some mad shit on here in the past, but this has got to be up there with the worst of it.

OP - please for your sake and your child's just cut them off now. A letter to them both saying you will not be coming to mediation and saying that you are ceasing all contact. Then, if you haven't already, find a good therapist to work through it all.

They’ve also both tried to petition the court for access to DC, 1 overnight a month each and 1 overnight every week of school holidays (so 1 each at October, February and June half terms, 2 nights each at Christmas and Easter, and 6 nights each in the summer). My dad also asked that he be allowed to take DC away for 1 week every year and that it would have to be during term time as he won’t go away in holidays.

They are insane. Who TF do they think they are? I’d want to cut them both off entirely for this absolute madness. Why are they trying to separate your son from you, too?