I’m stopping them being grandparents apparently but I don’t know what else I can do?

[MediationNotWorking]

DC is 8, and the only grandchild of my parents.

I am divorced and DC spends EOWend Friday to Sunday with ExH, this is court ordered. ExH refuses to see DC in the week so this is their only time together. I do not ask for a change to contact unless I have a very specific valid reason and can “repay” the contact at a later date.

I work FT across 4 days, ExH pays no maintenance because on paper he earns nothing at all (he lives on fresh air – or more likely out of his parents bank accounts). I use my day off to do appointments for DCs medical condition.
I feel like I hardly see DC in term time/the week. They’re in breakfast club every morning from 7.30am, and then 2 nights a week stay late at school for clubs, they also do scouting one another night a week – I would never ever stop these, DC loves them and gets so much out of them plus it would be being stopped for selfish reasons.

But that means EOWend is protected time. I want to spend time with my DC, take them places or help with their homework or just chill out at home because I basically pay to sleep there in the week.

I know this is typical for many single parents.

My parents hate it. They’re not together anymore so I already have to split myself in two sometimes as they won’t be in a room together. I try and see them both 1 Saturday a month for a couple of hours, sometimes that’s during the weekends DC is with their dad, sometimes I have DC with me.

Both have said it’s disgusting, I should be letting DC stay overnight with them and if that interferes with their contact with their dad then so be it because ExH refuses to do any of the grunt work. They tell me regularly that no-one is going to take DC off me because I stop them going to see ExH.

They’ve also both tried to petition the court for access to DC, 1 overnight a month each and 1 overnight every week of school holidays (so 1 each at October, February and June half terms, 2 nights each at Christmas and Easter, and 6 nights each in the summer). My dad also asked that he be allowed to take DC away for 1 week every year and that it would have to be during term time as he won’t go away in holidays.

It didn’t go to court but there was mediation and neither parent could understand why I can’t commit anymore time than I have. Neither of them have seen DC since Christmas (Mum Christmas Day dad Christmas Eve) because I’ve
just not got the time, I feel like I’m constantly trying to catch my breath and never see my own DC. I have refused both proposals.

Both have said I am stopping them from being proper grandparents, and dads threatened to “cut me off forever with no going back” if I don’t commit to the level of contact he wants.

I will add the mediator both times tell them that I should not ignore the CAO, and they (different ones for mum and dad) did not advise me to do that as it could land me seeing DC even less – and both shouted at the mediator saying it wasn’t fair to them. No resolution was reached in mediation for either.

So what can I do? I can’t do much else? But this stress is crippling me, I need a resolution. Any ideas? I have mediation again next week with one and the week after with the other.

They could control what you did and where you went when you were a child.

They can't accept that they cannot control you, and, by extention your dc, now you're an adult so tried to use legal means to do so.

Do you're parents bring anything positive to your life at all?

I cut my mother out of my life when she began starting the shit she did to me on my dc. I never felt bad, it was like a huge weight had been lifted.

I honestly recommend you do the same, it's one less chore to do, and two less people to keep happy at the expense of your wellbeing.

I’m going to ask you a question, and I hope you’re not offended by this…. What was your childhood like, and as a result of that, how do you feel about your parents?

I ask, because it sounds like you’ve got from a narcissistic and toxic parental home, to a narcissistic and toxic marriage, and then bounced straight back to your parents being the primary abusers in your life. The fact they want your children to themselves is a huge red flag that they’re wanting the children to dance to their tune as well and become another element to the mind games and twisted behaviour.

You are not unreasonable to not bow to their demands. You and your children are quite rightly the top priority in this situation, and you do not owe your parents anything. If they don’t like it, then it’s their fault that they don’t want to prioritise the needs of their child and their grandchildren above their bizarre wishes.

I’ve lived through having a parent like this, hoping that one day they would become the parent I deserved who put me first… walking on eggshells, being expected to bow to their demands, feeling that no matter what I did, nothing would ever be good enough. They’re dead now which was hugely traumatic for me if I’m honest, and in hindsight now the dust has settled I can see how utterly fucking deluded I was allowing their batshit behaviour to remain in my life and to control me.

Pasting below a response I gave earlier to an OP whose abusive parents are excessively controlling and want her to move to their country. For what it's worth, your parents are far worse IMO. It is no surprise you ended up having a useless "D"H, you sadly weren't brought up to value yourself. In the message below I mentioned setting boundaries but given what you say about your parents, they will not accept any, so you have the option of continuing to be abused - which in turn will have a major effect on your children, or cutting them off. I'm finally no contact with my "mother" and wish I had done it years and years ago.

" Your parents are treating you like a child; they do not see you as an equal, they do not respect you. You yourself say they were (are) abusive parents, would you stay close to other people who abuse you? You have been brought up to accept unacceptable behaviour (like me).

But you don't have to accept it, you can set boundaries - e.g. Tell her to stop telling you to move to Spain as it's not happening and you refuse to discuss it, if she does it again tell her you've already said you will not discuss it but if she brings it up again you will hang up. Then if she keeps pushing, you hang up. It will probably create total rage in her so be prepared for that. It could even mean she refuses to speak to you ever again, so be prepared for that too. If you're lucky she may learn that when you set a boundary she needs to respect that.

I see a therapist regularly as I have only begun to understand in the last couple of years how badly I was abused, I didn't realise I had the right, as a human being, to be treated with basic respect. You may find therapy helps you. I also follow some Instagram accounts including understandingthenarc, it has little bite-size pieces which help me. One of the most helpful things I have found (and keep recommending here) is the podcasts by Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna, therapist specialising in narcisistic abuse, there are loads of them, about an hour to an hour and a half long, absolutely eye opening. I'd suggest you might benefit from listening to a couple podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/in-sight-exposing-narcissism/id1613030538 "

Are you in America?

Ultimately, the needs and well-being of your child come above all else. DC needs to spend time with you and his dad. You are his parents.

I wouldn't offer then any alone time with your son. I would offer to bring him over one weekend a month for a few hours. If that's not good enough then let them take you to court.

There are lots of ways you can be a good grandparent and build a relationship with a grandchild that do not involve overnight stays or holidays though. So I think your parents' demand are unreasonable.
The whole point of mediation is that you all reach some sort of compromise and not that their demands will be met. It doesn't sound as if they are going to compromise and it's not as if they have no contact with your ds. I think you need to make the next session the last one unless they are prepared to compromise.

I see a lot of posts on here, where people talk about someone wanting to spend time with a child, alone. To me, that's just bizarre. Why do your own parents want to spend time with your child and not with you? You are their child!
The fact that your own parents tried to take you to court over this says a lot about the sort of people they are.
I'd tell them they can do after-school childcare and stay for a meal with you. Take it or leave it. And to be honest, if they leave it, it doesn't seem like you are losing much.
You are doing the best for your child. It's more important for them to spend that precious spare time with you, their parent, than with anyone else. In a few years they will want to spend some of their weekend time with their mates instead, all the more reason for you to enjoy it to yourself now.

This is about them wanting to control
you. Your DC is collateral. I’m so sorry

They sound bonkers

You could rope them in to help you, maybe they could pick up from school and take to clubs or have them one evening and they take them to school the following day

Tbh I don't think I'd be inclined to see them much at all. Especially as they aren't happy with your suggestions, or that they don't want you there. They sound hugely controlling.

Fucking hell - cut them off. They sound like monsters.

if I was your parent, I’d offer to bring round a cooked meal after one of the clubs/activities for you/child/parent. Enjoy the meal, then I’d pitch in helping child with reading/whatever, maybe sit with them watching a bit of tv and help you get child to bed. But they just want to take the child away to play with like he is a toy. Utter freaks.

This^

having GPs involved in your child's life is supposed to enhance their lives, not cause more stress.

exactly!

OP, most people would have gone no contact with them way, way, way before this.

they're trying to steal your children.

why on earth do they think they have a right to see them as much as a parent?

it's almost like you're in the middle of trying to please 4 parent. there arne't. there are 2 parents.

YOUR parents are not part of the discussion.

i think you've been far, far too accomodating of their crazy demands, it's completely inappropriate what they expect, and most people would have walked away a LONG time ago.

either they are a positive in your life or they're not - they're not. walk away.

Your parents should be your support not your people to be battling.
I find it interesting that both of them separately are causing the same issue. Usually you find one is irrational and the other more normal.
I can't help but feel you need to be blunt with them, tell them how it is and if you end up NC then so be it.
I actually think you would be better off without them. X

What value do they bring to your dc's life - do you think they are good role models? Does your dc like spending time with them? The only reason to work hard at finding time for them is if it benefits your dc.

But I would ditch mediation and keep inviting them to your house for a weeknight meal (perhaps during school holidays on Scouts night, since it won't be on?). If they refuse, you express your regret. Wait a month, repeat.

You are normal and doing your best in difficult circumstances. They are lunatics. They took you to court!!!

I'd reduce contact with them significantly.

This. Protect your dc as well as yourself from them.

They’ve tried to legally coerce you to hand over your child to them, and are now applying emotional and financial pressure?

I’m not sure they’re a good influence tbh. ‘When I don’t get what I want I sue and abuse’.

you sound like the sensible one in all this…

So it’s more about control than actually seeing the DC.

tbh from what you’ve said I’d be limiting or cutting their contact. Not increasing it.

They don’t have your DC, or your, best interests at heart at all.

I will never understand this at all. They’re your children. Why do they need to spend time with you without them there? I’ve already had comments about ‘needing’ to spend time away from my ds or that it would be ‘good for us both’ to leave him with his nana for a few hours and that he should be going to nursery. He’s not even 2 yet… it’s your turn to parent. Everything is your choice not theirs or anyone else’s.

Them without you there*

I find it interesting that both of them separately are causing the same issue.

It does sound like they are in contact and reinforcing each other world view or there is someone in both their lives pushing this.

I really did have the impression that people in IL life were egging them on when they were their most difficult - why I don't know.

Which worries the crap out of me tbh, because this isn’t right!

my own mother wasn’t very nice to me growing up but I thought she’d be better with ds. I was wrong

your parents are AWFUL @MediationNotWorking how much more controlling could they be? Applying to court, getting mediation etc, Wtaf.

you’re doing the right thing by your dc. Keep it that way. If they are going to threaten you then they should NOT be trusted with unaccompanied access. Tell your bully of a father that too! “So you think the way you’re going to get me to visit more, encourage more contact with MY children is to threaten me? Right oh. That’s never going to work Dad, so if you want to cut me off, cut me off! I don’t want to be threatened by anyone to do things I just can’t and don’t want to do”

were they always this bad?

I would send them both a text stating that both of them and their constant asks are now stressing you out. That it is not your problem that they cant be grown up enough to be in the same room so they can see dc together, that you simply cannot go against the court order as the repercussions will be awful for their grandchild and that you have had enough. You need to spend time with your child, and if they can’t see that, and are not prepared to fit in with you that is not your problem then go low contact with them both.

I find it interesting that both of them separately are causing the same issue.

I wonder if there’s also a competitive element in it.

”oh I persuaded her to let me do X when she said no to you…”

It's easy to be this objective to be on the outside looking in but I think you need to look at it very plainly

Your parents are clearly being extremely unreasonable - and are not displaying any care or consideration to you as their daughter, which should be a priority to them.

Do you think they realistically would go no contact with you?
And if they did, would you want to have a relationship with parents who don't support you?

How utterly uncaring they are about you OP! It’s like your needs don’t count and theirs trumps everyone else’s. They are wrong. You are the most important person in your dc’s life, dgp needs are secondary.
GP’s have NO right to overnight stays although this can work for many families.
I think you are doing a fantastic job, do what makes you and your dc happy.