To tell my child the complete truth

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People look at me gone out when I say this as if I've just killed their granny but I don't tell lies to my children. They're not taught about santa, Easter bunny etc, we still celebrate but there is no white lies involved.

I believe in monkey see monkey do so if I tell my kids not to lie to me but then in effect lie to them no matter how small would this not make me a hypocrit ?

Anyway , my older children have always been taught the reason they don't see their father often is because he's poorly , the older they're getting the more we are making them aware of their dads mental health condition.(they have a great relationship with his extended family as do i)

With that being said my youngest child has an absolute arsehole of a dad... hasn't seen them for over a year (baring in mind he lived on the same road) and would walk past them in the street.my child's getting to an age where they are going to begin to ask questions.

IMO I shouldn't blinker my child from the truth and suger coat how much of a twat their dad is.obviously I'm not going to tell a 3 year old their dad's a twat but I certainly won't be giving it the old , your daddy just wasn't ready for fatherhood when infact he's got 3 older children he sees and is a good 10years older than I am.the baby was planned and now he even denies that he's even the dad !! ...

My mum thinks I'm wrong and alot of things I've seen on the Internet tell you not to speak bad of the child's other parent but I'm left here thinking , well why ? Why shouldn't they know the truth , their 'dad' is a waste of space down an out, I'm not trying to poison their mind , I wasn't cheated on , I couldn't care less if he had a orgy filmed it and posted it all over social media, but the way he's treat my child is disgusting so why should I suger coat it !!

I told my ds when he was 11 years old, that his sperm donor hit him hard enough to leave a hand print when he was 2, for upending a bag of flour in the garden. I made him aware because social services were involved and wanted him to see the arsehole. My son then had the option to choose to see the arsehole if he wanted to. He hadn't seen hide nor hair of the arsehole for 8 years before that.
In the last 7 years social services have asked if he wanted to see the arsehole every time he got a new social worker.
Other than that I have never given an opinion on the arsehole because its not relevant.

OP, it really does sound like you want to punish your ex. You’re not fooling anyone by attempting to conflate Father Christmas stories with kind stories about your child’s father. The two are not the same. Not believing in Father Christmas will not affect a child’s self-worth and MH. Being told “your dad never wanted you (or me) but loves his other kids” will. Don’t emotionally wound your child forever to get back at their father. Your child will see who their father is in time.

Sorry haven’t RTWT but your child is eventually going to find out for themselves and form their own opinions on their father so until then, I’d answer specific questions (which I imagine will most likely be ‘why doesn’t my dad see me?’) generally with empathetic replies and hugs. I would probably say that unfortunately we can’t force people to do things that they don’t want to do or always understand other people’s behaviour. I would try to help them however I could. Just be loving. No need to lie or sugarcoat. Just let them know they will always be able to reply on you.

I was in exactly the same position here OP,
I've never lied to my kids (we didn't do santa, easter bunny or tooth fairy either) and they've grown up respecting that fact.
Both of my kids had rubbish fathers but that wasn't my fault, nor is it yours that yours has a crap dad.
The way I explained it was that they were kind and loving when I met them, they wanted their kids but then things started going wrong and it was better for us all that we split up.
When the kids were old enough to question why their dad's didn't visit, I never told them what complete arseholes they were, but instead said that 'i thought' they weren't adult/grown-up enough to accept the responsibility of kids because it's a lot of work raising a child and their fathers didn't want to do the hard work. It was only when they were teenagers themselves that they learnt the 'full' truth about them.
My youngest was doing something at school when he was 13 about family trees and the teacher asked the class what their parents did for a living. When it came to my boy's turn, he proudly told the class all about me then went quiet and the teacher asked 'what about your dad?'. He replied by saying his dad does nothing, he'd not seen him since he was about 8 (except at his gran's funeral), but that he didn't need a dad 'because my mum is all I need, she does everything that 2 parents would do'.
I was told about this by another teacher who'd heard the first teacher repeat it at a staff meeting because she was so touched that my boy was so proud of his mum.

So, I say to you, keep on telling them the truth, you should never slag their dad off when within earshot of them (that could come back to bite you), but you shouldn't sugar-coated it either, whilst the kids are young, keep it basic, tell the truth but be a bit economical with it, keep the juicy stuff back and they'll grow up realising that you do everything for them that 2 parents would normally do.
They may choose to make contact with him when they're older but in my experience, a crap dad may come across during a few meetings with their estranged kids as being fun and ok, but invariably they show their true crappy colours and the kids will see it for themselves and they'll make their own minds up about their dad in time.

The thing is, telling your children "the complete truth" is about you, and your "I'm dead honest, me" self-image, not about what is best for your children. In no possible universe is it always appropriate to tell children absolutely everything about the adult world. They're not ready for all of it, they don't need it, and it won't do them any good.

I can understand why one would want to tell a child that its father is an irredeemable asshole, but personally I think that would be unnecessarily distressing for the child, and a bit selfish on your part. You don't have to paint a rosy picture of him, but there's no need to unburden yourself either.

Three is too young to say much other than 'I'm not sure, we will ask him if we see him'. That's not about lying or sugar coating, it's just common sense because any real answer would be too much to comprehend and a lie is not going to help. My older DC, however, I have been reasonably honest with since she was around ten. 'Of course he loves you, but sometimes he is selfish or unable to to put you first. It's not your fault, you've done nothing wrong, it's just who he is'. Because, and I worry about this a lot, she was learning to try and keep pleasing him, accepting crumbs of attention and blaming herself when it didn't happen. She needed to know, not have me either lie for him or affirm her worst fears. Not learn that she needs to constantly accept being picked up and dropped, be a good girl or whatever. But that's age appropriate. Not at 3.

Has your child ever asked a question about his dad? Unless the question is being asked, I wouldn't not start the conversation given his age.

From friends of mine who have been in similar situations, it’s best to do what you can to encourage the father to have an interest. I appreciate that it may seem totally futile but this is the best way to support your child. I mean, I’m not saying bust a gut to try to make him come around but just try to keep things open. Suggest a dna test. And you could tell your child that daddy just finds it difficult to be friends at the moment and you don’t really know why.

My thoughts for what it is worth. My parents divorced acrimoniously when I was 2. I lived with my mum & saw my dad usually once at the weekend a 2 week holiday in the summer. They hated each other. My mum slagged my dad off when I was with her & he’d do the same when I was with him. Not constantly but it was always there. So when I was a kid I came to the conclusion that as I was 50% each of them they must both also hate that half of me. I also hated it so much when I had to listen to them slagging the person who they brought me into the world with. Therefore 100% of me was bad. This needed some therapy to sort out & made it difficult for me to believe people could actually like me. And I have had imposter syndrome for most of my life. So careful how you word it.

As previous poster said children feel that they are 50% each parent and if you say negative things about their father that will cause them emotional harm. I don't tell "lies" to my kid about Santa etc.. either but I protect them from additional harm by always being respectful in the way I speak about their father despite his behaviour... I don't pretend he's better than he is but it's not my job to point out his flaws. They will only resent you for doing this if you insist on it. I think what was written above is the kindest option.

"Because it's for their benefit, they are half of that person. Tell them that you don't know why he doesn't see them, but say that he is missing out hugely and that you are so lucky to have them. Telling them he is no good will lead to them thinking they must be not much good either. Turn it round into a positive every time about how lucky you are and how great they are, don't make it a negative for them."

You are better off asking a professional person than a random bunch of strangers pretending to child psychologist.

That is a good way of putting it . I don’t think you should lie but also you should never be judgemental about the other parent . When the child is old enough they can make up their own mind . You never know things may change .

There's a difference between telling someone the truth and telling them EVERYTHING. Saying 'your dad is a twat' is your opinion (may or may not be the truth for someone else.
There are some good suggestions in pp

Nailed it!

I don't think you're being unreasonable, but you've got a fine line to walk. You can't sugar coat it and pretend his dad is a great guy, but you can't demonize him either. Be honest, but be kind.
I'm in a similar scenario, but with my 17yo. I asked her dad to move out, he moved away and has given up contacting her.

I wouldn’t go down the route of making an overt judgement on their dad in a positive or negative light, but I would explain that in your household you have a certain set of values, and their dad has different ones. I think you could say that as a family you do/don’t like something, but their dad has the right to choose how he lives. If they say ‘but that’s not kind etc’ you can say ‘yes I agree with you, which is why in our household we don’t behave that way’.

Obviously this implies a certain degree of bad behaviour on the dad’s part, but it also means that you are stating the facts to your children without bringing ‘trash talking’ into it. It also leaves them free to make up their own minds in future.

For context, when my parents divorced, my mum took the above tactic whereas my dad slates my mum openly. I respect my mums actions and learned from the far more.

Also for context I don’t personally believe that it’s always helpful to actively talk well of someone, just because they are your child’s parent. But that’s not the same as saying negative things about them to young children.

This. This was said to me more or less word for word by a friend whose dad was an alcoholic. His mum divorced him and he drank himself to death within a few years.

I have had a similar dilemma with my DD who is now 12. We separated when she was four after years of (mainly) emotional abuse. He continued the abuse for several years and still drinks heavily and has recurrent depression.

I have decided to be polite and respectful to a fault when I speak to my daughter about him. She has asked me why I didn’t want to stay with him and I just said we got on better as friends. She still sees him and loves him but she absolutely knows I am the parent she relies on and the one who has done all the heavy lifting. Me telling her her dad was an abusive shit to me and has a drink problem serves no purpose except to make her feel shit about him and potentially about herself. No one wins, least of all her.

Thankfully he has had something of an epiphany since we separated and had to some degree turned himself around so my relationship with him is fairly cordial and we do things “as a family” sometimes. Hell would freeze over before I reinstated him into our lives in a permanent way and I will never trust or respect him but I am quite content to fake things in front of her to keep her happy.

I think you should be honest with yourself about why you would be being “honest” with your kids about him. It may be cathartic for you but it’s unlikely to help them.

What would you tell them if they weee conceived via sperm donor? Because he’s basically that…

Your child is 50% you and 50% your ex-partner. If you criticise your ex your child will feel they’re bad too.

Because their minds are not mature enough to understand. You dont have to sugar coat it but I dont see a need to cause harm to your childs mental health either.

Your child will take it personally, they may feel rejected if you say the dad doesn't want to know.
I was in this position some years ago - I just used to really emphasise to my DD that I really wanted & really loved her no matter what. I said, when she asked lots of questions about her dad that he "wasn't very good at sharing " - I tried not to slate him because I knew she would feel bad about herself.
Tell your DD you love her & wouldn't be without her.
I get that you'd be angry anyone would be, but your DD doesn't need to be involved with adult stuff.

After 25 years I found that my ex was a covert narcissist, he had been stealing from me and had another family for 20 of them , very plausible totally believed by everyone when I discovered what an evil person he is , and realised even though my friends and family thought I was a strong woman etc etc I had been the victim of coercive control fraud and so much more . Honestly feel like we have been living in a bloody Netflix movie it’s all so unbelievable awful.
I asked close friends what to tell my daughter
they all said tell her the truth the stealing and manipulation of assets, including savings, put away for her, but keep it simple and keep your feelings back.
A year on I regret telling her she’s a mess nearly 20 now and it’s shattered her whole world to know that her father is a liar, cheat and fraudster.
I thought it would protect her going forward, in the horrible mess it’s to much to bear for a young person in the face of her whole life being a lie and in chaos.
think very carefully about the long term affects of the truth .

@Awakeallnight Couldn't agree with your post more.

My parents split, nastily, when I was 21. My mother emotionally blackmailed myself and my two brothers into cutting all contact with our father. That was 34 years ago and she's done nothing but slag him off to us ever since.

I accepted her 'truth' for a while, until I discovered, through reading her own diary, that she was fucking lying her head off about certain events/decisions made...huge decisions that to this day still affect my life (and my two brothers). She tried blaming my father for all of it, when her own words showed that she was the driving force. Not that I really needed the diary, as I was 9 when the decisions were made and obviously as it was so major that time is indelibly recorded in my memories...

I've never trusted her 'truth' since, and as I've got older I've understood more about why my father left. I would have done the same, but would have done it differently. Yes, my father is a twat...and so is my mother for the way she's acted since. You don't burden your children with your marriage crap, especially if they haven't even asked anything about it. Find help elsewhere.

I think the point is your child needs the space to make his own assessment of his own father as he gets older. If you force ‘your truth’ on him he may feel he has to think that too to keep your love or whatever. You don’t have to lie, just keep it neutral - ‘Daddy and I didn’t get on very well when we lived together so we decided it would be nicer for you if we lived apart’. If he asks you as an adult you can consider sharing warts and all then.

I didn't mouth ex to DS, conversely but ex absolutely did a number on DS. Now DS hates me and lives with his dad. It's hard to judge what to do for the best.