what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

If we’re really tightening up on legislation and being strict then we have to address dog poo too. I am SICK of walking in it, my dog walking through it, it is everywhere. I’ve owned dogs for 20+ years and never run out of bags on a walk, despite having a dog that loves an outdoor shit and sometimes goes 3+ times in one walk 🤦🏻‍♀️ The laws for leaving behind poo are far too measly and not enough of a deterrent. Honestly, if they made the first offence a large fine (in the thousands) and 2nd offence a stay in prison, I would be fine with that. Responsible dog owners who pick up their poo wouldn’t have a problem with that

Not ridiculous at all. If you want a dog, you make sure it doesn't inconvenience, or endanger others.

I actually think extendable leads are more dangerous than the dogs, so either short leads, or you let them off lead if they do have 100% recall and you can keep up with them or you let them off lead in a special dog exercise area (of which we need many more than we have).

It's true that most deaths seems to happen in private homes, but the more minor injuries that lead to pressure on A&E departments are caused outside. Both need to be addressed.

But we eliminate risk as much as possible. And the risk that your dog decides to impulsively chase livestock is not your risk to take as they’re not your livestock. Farmers want dogs on the lead. And areas for dogs to go off the lead do exist so it’s not as if you have no other option. There are dog fields all over the country!

I think more public places should state dogs have to be kept on leads. I have a lovely kind dog, but as dogs are unpredictable and we don't always know how other people and other dogs will react she is always on lead in public places.

She gets off lead walks in secure fields, or on our very rural walk where we rarely meet anyone, and those we do meet, we know and she's knows she can play. If I meet an unknown dog on those walks, she is back on the lead before she's even noticed they are there.

I feel much more relaxed walking her in places that state all dogs to be on leads because I know she's not going to be approach by an out of control dog, so these tend to be the places I choose to take her now.

Agreed. It always leads to the exact same discussion which has no relevance to what actually happened.

You’re right, but the entitled people who let their dogs poo everywhere, train them to be aggressive and let them off lead wherever they like don’t care about anyone else and aren’t about to start. My dog is also a retriever soft and silly but a bit excited with kids as he thinks they are fun to play with and other dogs also so he is lead walked in public and gets free runs enclosed without other dogs. Frustrating at times but failure of people to control their animals has a knock on on other pets but that’s just how it is.

nothing will change though, sadly the people who don’t care will still not care and everyone else pays for that.

We've had staffies for years, I love the breed and wouldn't have anything other than a staffie now.
Given the choice though I'd rather be mauled by a chihuahua than a staffy, or any other large breed.
Breaks my heart to see so many XL bullies with their ears chopped off to make them look tough - breed typical would indeed be a gentle dog who adores people, I feel too many people think they can tell a dog's temperament by their looks. That's a mistake with people and with dogs.
Any dog with a dickhhead owner worries me. Including the spaniel that greeted my dog (who was on short lead and behaving himself!) by immediately trying to bite his face! As a rule I never let my dog get nose to nose with another dog, but some people just don't give a shit.
I'd have been terrified in your situation OP on your horse being pursued by a large dog. Doesn't bear thinking about.
Tools who train dogs badly, if at all, and want chunky hard looking status dogs are the problem. I've no idea how we solve it.

I am SICK of walking in it, my dog walking through it, it is everywhere
Well we certainly agree on that one!

But we eliminate risk as much as possible. And the risk that your dog decides to impulsively chase livestock is not your risk to take as they’re not your livestock
Indeed we eliminate risk as much as possible. The issue is you making you the chief of all knowledge of what constitue a higher risk for ALL dogs.

I do consider it my responsibility to ensure livestock is not threatened. I just don't think my dog is posing that risk.

I could similarly state that no horse should ever be walk on public pathways, includening the forest. After all there is a risk that your horse could kick my little dog, on the lead passing close to it because after all a horse can never be fully trusted abd goo horse owner would only take horses in horse only fields where they don't accounter any other animal.

Don't you agree with that? I don't own horses and don't ride them but I wouldn't agree.

With respect, you don't know the farmers near me. And yes, as long as I'm acting within the law, it is up to me to asses the risk of where I let my dog off. In the same way, as it is up to you to decide whether to drive a car, despite that potentially having bad consequences for someone else if you make an error.

There are speed cameras in most areas of my city. The areas without speed cameras drivers will routinely break the speed limit - because they want to and can get away with it, same as irresponsible/dangerous dog owners.

Agreed. It always leads to the exact same discussion which has no relevance to what actually happened
Indeed. As much as I do t agree all dogs should be on lead, muzzled etc...I really think we need to do something about dangerous breeds and educating people. You should never let a child with a rescue dog you've only known for a few weeks. In this instance, the risks are definitely potentially high.

Totally different issue.

Well at least we agree on something 😉

I agree- if my horse were near enough your dog to do that. But I keep my horse far away from dog walkers and pedestrians. I also trust my horse implicitly (he’s a total dope on a rope) and could ride bareback with no tack and be absolutely fine. But I don’t, I ride in full tack to eliminate the risk of that happening. Ditto dogs on leads

Its up to the owner to be aware of their dog and their surroundings. I walk my dog off leash regularly because he's a springer and needs to run and get the stimulation of scent work etc. I have him very well trained to ignore other people and animals and he'd never be off leash around livestock. If we see another dog coming who is on lead, we'll either change direction to give that dog space or I'll leash him so the other owner knows I've seen them and am giving them space. We've had a few instances where off leash dogs have displayed really dominant behaviours toward my dog in dog parks to the point where I've left because I felt the owner wasn't fully aware of their dogs signalling. So i think part of it is people not fully understanding dogs body language and assume their dog is more confident/comfortable than they are so they effectively set their dog up for a fail.

I don't think any particular breeds need to be eliminated, but I do think there needs to be more onus put on ethical and responsible breeding and there should be an onus on a breeder to make a reasonable attempt to ensure the prospective buyer has a solid understanding of the breed, its needs and temperament. For eg bully breeds are actually very good pets if well socialised but they're highly impulsive so owners should be working on impulsivity training very consistently. I think in an ideal world you'd have to do dog training classes in order to licence your dog so everyone would get an understanding of their responsibility and how to train effectively.

I agree with you on that point too. It’s an absolute recipe for disaster

They might politely be fine with it to your face, but unless they are the only farmers in the entire country to think otherwise, they would be much happier if your dog was on the lead around their livestock.

Yeah but we eliminate when driving as much as possible. Nobody needs to text and drive, it’s an inconvenience but you can pull over and do it. Nobody needs to walk their dogs off the lead, it might be an inconvenience but there are dog fields specifically for that purpose.

I choose walks that won't cause me or my dog unnecessary stress. I walk early, late, in bad weather (fewer people), avoid high peak times etc. It's really easy to find a walk that suits you and your dog.

all a horse can never be fully trusted

so the big difference here is that horses are basically prey animals do if they kick it is usually because a dog is around ‘playing/being friendly/nipping’ its hind legs. It is just instinct to protect itself.

Dog should not be there as a dog is essentially an attacker…horse sees wolf type thing at the back where it cannot see so kicks & will try to get away.

some basic understanding of animal behaviour is all it takes to avoid this.

Nothing would change my mind. And I don’t find your photos cute. You are part of the problem. Thinking that just because you love your dogs, everyone else will. You are very wrong.

I never assumed people would find my kids cute so I didn’t let them approach others. The same should go for dog owners. But many are indulgent idiots.

Agree, @ForAReason .Some dog owners just cannot accept there are people out there who are utterly indifferent to their pets, or actively dislike them. These people do not need to be educated or have their minds changed. It's a perfectly valid point of view.

I’d love to own a dog but I can’t afford it and I’d also feel concern about finding quiet areas to exercise it without bumping into other aggressive dogs.

Dog ownership has almost doubled in the last 10yrs which means there’s more pressure on parks and outdoor spaces to accommodate everyone peacefully. Even going out for a walk I’ve noticed a portion of dog owners who don’t care about other people and see it as their right to allow their dogs to trip us up, jump up or act aggressive towards us. Extendable leads aren’t great for controlling a dog in a busy area. The attitude is: you shouldn’t be out here walking if you don’t want to see a dog. Erm, no, you need to be in control of your dog 🙄

The recent dog attacks involving XL Bullies highlight how this breed is unstoppable when they attack. The case in Wales should result in banning any dog trading on social media. This dog was given away for free because it had been attacking other dogs. The video footage is terrifying. Should previous owners be liable for not passing a dangerous dog over for assessment?

Firstly, we need to be able to sensible conversations about dogs and for me that starts with acknowledging that there is not just one problem.

A retriever accidentally knocking over a child with excitement is not the same thing AT ALL as the horrendous incident in Milton Keynes yesterday.

We need to stop lumping these all in together as "the dog problem", make clear differentiation of different types of problem, and have separate discussions.

And I'm confident I know which problem actually needs addressing more urgently.

The video Celinia links to in her post just demonstrates that the biggest issue is the people - the video shows a parent(s?) who is more interested in looking hard/keeping in with their mates than the fact that the poor child is actually in the road with cars going past very close and at a fair lick to avoid a dog that is clearly fixed on her.

I own dogs, and clearly comply with any legal requirements now or in the future. But honestly - I am not the problem.

Maybe it's different on different areas. The fields I walk my pup in have no livestock. All the dogs that go there are off the lead and they pretty much al play with each other. All the owners have got to know each other by now and we know all the dogs because we see them frequently! If there's a dog we don't recognise or people.on their own with no dog he goes on the lead.

Crikey, there's a lot of dog snobbery about!

Sorry OP, but there are no fields near me that I can just pay for to let him run about on his own. I also wouldn't want to! He loves playing with the other dogs and they love playing with him! It's all friendly in these parts!!

I work from home so your strange assumptions about me being out the house all day everyday at work are odd

Dog owners are often in denial.

Dogs are not people.

We need to ban all dogs other than service dogs in restaurants and cafes.

They should not be allowed on public transport off-lead. I have seen dogs walking up and down tube carriages whilst the owner chats away. How is that acceptable?

I am not scared of dogs (unless one charges at me). But I detest dog drool and do not want canines nuzzling at my skirt or bag.

Saying, ‘don’t worry, he is friendly’ should merit a life sentence.

And if a dog ruins someone’s picnic, the owner should get the death penalty.

i haven’t mentioned you being out the house all day or working from home, not sure what you’re on about 🤨