what to do about dog problem?!

[sundaysundae1]

i know this comes up time and time again on here, and some people have very strong opinions on the situation, but after yet another walk where my dog was harassed by an absolute monster off the lead, and another tragic dog bite story in the news, im frankly sick of it.

I have a beautifully natured retriever who comes everywhere with me. We have horses and access to land, and he can run within the grounds of the property which is all fenced off anyway. We also frequently go to dog fields and dog areas where they are allowed off the lead. But when walking in public- parks, streets, countryside, fields and basically everywhere else, he stays on the lead. He is fully trained and socialised and i would trust him with my life and he largely ignores other people and animals unless they stop to pet him, but he is a dog! They can do impulsive things. I dont trust that he wouldnt get hyper and run up to a family to say hello and accidentally knock over a child with excitement, or that he wouldnt run up to another dog to play. He wouldnt mean any harm, but not everybody likes other dogs and frankly i wouldnt want a strange dog running up to me or my kids. Just because i think he's the cutest, most adorable boy in the world doesnt mean that to someone else he's not a terrifying giant slobbery monster that could hurt them. Therefore he stays on the lead at all times.

i am sick to the back fucking teeth of other idiotic and selfish dog owners letting their badly behaved dogs off the lead to approach other people and dogs. he is on the lead. he doesnt want to say hello and neither do i. I just dont undestand the mindset that that behaviour is ok? its even scarier around livestock in rural areas- i dont care how well trained your dog is, NOBODY can guarantee their dog wont impulsively chase sheep or animals. Even if these owners are so selfish not to care about others- dont they realise their dog could be shot dead by the farmer?! if you love your dog so much, why would you risk their safety like that?!

and as for the discussion about dangerous breeds and the massive increase in bites, we absolutely need to change the law around dog ownership. We need to tighten up about certain dog breeds. Yes, all dogs can bite and kill including my retriever, but some of these dogs are built like hippos and have traits bred specifically for fighting or aggression, and are completely unsuitable for 99% of owners. The idea that anyone upon turning 18 can go and buy an XL bully with absolutely no training or licensing is insane. Im sick of excuses that Rover the american mastiff x pittie x malinois x XL bullie is a safe gentle giant who wouldnt harm a fly. Im sure he is, but if he followed his instincts and breed traits and ended up mauling someone, it would be much more catastrophic than from other dogs. From a dog owner perspective, i dread seeing these dogs because im terrified of them breaking free and ripping my dog to shreds. I was harassed and chased by an out of control XL bully/pitbull type dog whilst on my horse which i genuinely thought would maul my horse with me on it. This animal was built like a tank and it was the most terrifying moment of my life.

I also want to clarify that I've actually owned 2 dogs of a breed considered to be 'bad' and they were dogs with a working purpose. Dogs like malinois' are largely unsuitable for non working homes and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

But on the flip side, the problematic dog owners with out of control dangerous breeds will still find a way to own these dogs- after all pitbulls are banned yet still a relatively common dog. And if these problematic owners are prevented buying these dogs and get a less notorious breed, will this breed then end up becoming problematic too?

people mention dog licenses and tighter control of dog ownership but the problematic dog owners dont care about that and it wont make a difference

we have a real problem with some entitled dog owners but i honestly dont know what the solution is!

The problem is you can’t legislate against who buys a dog. But you can make it more difficult for people to get hold of problem dogs. If this dog had been passed over to an organisation for assessment, chances are the danger signs would’ve been spotted. If social media algorithms could prevent the sale or giving away of dogs it would make it more difficult to pass on an animal like this one.

You said yourself he doesn’t always obey, so his recall isn’t 100%. He should NOT be off the lead yet. What if someone walks past and doesn’t want him approaching them? Or a dog on a lead who doesn’t want your puppy to say hello? You said it yourself, he doesn’t always obey so you can’t guarantee that won’t happen.

I don’t really care how far away dog fields are from you- they exist. And are necessary especially when training recall in young puppies. Drive, get public transport, get in a taxi if you have to. These are things you have to think about when getting a puppy and it’s your responsibility to train your dog in a safe environment which has to be enclosed and not affecting other people, especially if their recall isn’t 100% yet.

My colleagues and I were discussing how much the cost of pet food has gone up recently. One said she had to feed her dogs a carrot each that morning because she couldn't get thier food until payday. She has just bought a new puppy for fucks sake. My son was attacked buy a dog just over a year ago. The owners never bothered to walk it so it became fat, depressed and angry. I'm just so sick of idiot owners not taking thier responsibilities seriously enough.

It's too easy to buy a dog, you should not be able to impulsively buy an animal after a quick Google. Puppy farms need to be shut down, sites like pets4homes need to be shut down. Don't get me started on businesses that pick up random dogs in Romania and bring them here. If that means only rich people can afford dogs, so be it.

Dogs are a luxury just like any other luxury. Expensive to feed, insure, get medical care for. Owning a dog is not a divine right, or entitlement.

Thanks @Thereisnolight It's nice to 'meet' someone with similar views. We are few and far between!
I just got back from a walk and sadly it's only strengthened my views.
A woman with four dogs - two cockerpoos types and two collies. One of the collies is so old. She hobbles and limps and shuffles and gets called to, come on, Meg, while she's doing her utmost to keep up with these young dogs (who have zero recall) and is so clearly in pain. It's so utterly heartbreaking and the woman no doubt 'loves' her dearly as only a human being can love, ie in a totally selfish way.
And then there was the big off-lead dog running around like crazy with the owner nowhere to be seen. We went back the way we came from. Unlikely to be the next statistic but it's better to be safe than sorry.

But lots of dogs enjoying their walks too and not bothering anyone else - human or canine or anything else - and I'd like to think mine was one of them and I'm sure yours is too.

Muzzle all dogs? Ridiculous! My dog is well trained and this would be complete overkill.

Ban American bullies. Simple.

I agree- if my horse were near enough your dog to do that. But I keep my horse far away from dog walkers and pedestrians. I also trust my horse implicitly (he’s a total dope on a rope) and could ride bareback with no tack and be absolutely fine. But I don’t, I ride in full tack to eliminate the risk of that happening. Ditto dogs on leads
Near enough? How can you be 100% certain it won't come close to a dog? It gets frightened by a loud horn or whatever else, takes off, you can't control it and as it is galloping, it gets near a dog in the lead that doesn't have time to get out of the way and bang, hits it?

See, you say you trust your horse implicitly not to hurt someone but can't accept that someone else can do the sane with a horse. Horse are animals and unpredictable. They can be a danger and do indeed do harm. You can't fully control a beast much heavier than a human.

It's the exact same argument. You still do go out with your horse though because you know that the risks, although not 0% are low enough to deem a walk in a populated area is fine.

I hope you keep your dog on a lead during the bird breeding season (1st March to 31st July every year) as it is a requirement on all open access land.

Your dog, like all the other off lead dogs, is is doing irreverible damage to our wildlife populations.

Individual dog licences would be useless so I think the only way would be to licence breeders and strictly regulate breeding but unfortunately even then we don't have the resources to police it.

I also hold the very unpopular opinion that all dogs held by rescues that are considered unsafe for families should be put down. Having worked in a shelter, I stopped supporting them when I realised that most of the dogs in there would never come out - they were destined to a very restricted life in captivity. I agree that we should also ban the import of rescue dogs - we have too many dogs in this country already.

Which is why, as I said, I would always ride my horse in full tack. Even though I know he would be fine and would behave impeccably bareback with no bridle, it’s my responsibility as an owner to ensure he is under my control as much as possible to eliminate risk as much as possible. Which means full tack always when hacking out.

its the exact same logic for your dog. To be under your full control as much as possible and to eliminate risk as much as possible, he needs to be on a lead.

Which is why, as I said, I would always ride my horse in full tack
That doesn't stop your horse running out of control or more commonly, kicking back and potentially doing much damage to a dog or child.

They say to never walk close to a horse back for this reason. Your horse is a potential danger to strangers, fully tackled or not. The only way to reduce risk to a maximum would be to only ride very early or late and nowhere near where people walk their dogs during the day. Do you do that?

I hope you don't. You have to accept very very small risks in life. After all you could die from a dangerous cow, an aggressive badger, even owls can attack humans!

I hope you keep your dog on a lead during the bird breeding season (1st March to 31st July every year)

Woodland open to the public not open access moorland There is no ground nesting bird ban in these woods.

Media now reporting the dog involved in the latest incident is an “American bulldog”.

now there’s a surprise.

What's the penalty though? How to we punish the parents who's children have just been killed or bitten? The areas were people won't get a license are the most deprived, fines are always avoided for such families if it means that the children go without. Go to any PDSA and you'll see people park expensive cars, carry small designer dogs in and then give their Mum/Sister/Nan's name as the owner, who they've brought with them and who are on benefits. A lot of the dog attacks are by dogs who were owned by the son/brother but who's now in prison. Those who would get the license won't be the people who house the dog.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Lots of XLs recently, and a large majority of bully breeds of one type or another for the past decade or two

@vivainsomnia I must have missed all the stories in the news about horses turning on children, or the rescues full of unwanted lockdown or Christmas foals. You cannot compare horse ownership to dog ownership, they are two completely different things.

You cannot compare horse ownership to dog ownership, they are two completely different things
Of course you can, both are potentially dangerous. The media are just not interested in reporting horse accident and of course, they don't live in cities. Saying back, there is a stable near us in a town and there have been bear misses and let's not even talk about the massive shit they leave on the roads that is of course not picked up. It's disgusting.

I do love horses though, and dogs!

@Goingforasong
I agree that if a dog is likely to spend its whole life in rescue (depending on the rescue, some are better than others), then it might be in its best interest to be pts.
However, I think rehoming centres need much more regulation. There are loads of dogs in rescue who could be rehomed but the rescue centres have such strict rules that many people go to breeders when they'd much rather rehome.
If they rehomed sensibly, many dogs could be rehomed and breeders put out of business.
There are arguments against bringing in dogs from overseas (disease mainly) but I don't think there should be blanket ban. A dog in need is a dog in need wherever they happen to have been born. They can make excellent companions too and they can be really hardy types who have survived against the odds and not been buggered about with by humans and greedy vets who often over-treat UK born dogs.

or the rescues full of unwanted lockdown
Actually, our local large rescue organisation have almost 20 horses and more ponies. Media isn't interested.

I disagree with bringing dogs from abroad (despite two friends having such dogs) but definitely agree that rescue places put far too many obstacles in people's way.

When my wonderful dog died last year I really wanted to adopt from a rescue but was always ruled out because we've got a cat, a tiny back yard and live near a busy road. Eventually I gave up and bought an adult dog through the freeads, he's having a great life with us.

How can you be 100% certain it won't come close to a dog? It gets frightened by a loud horn or whatever else, takes off, you can't control it and as it is galloping, it gets near a dog in the lead that doesn't have time to get out of the way and bang, hits it?

jesus, had this ever happened? Pretty far fetched isn’t it . Now dogs attacking horses there is documented evidence…

@Lellochip god that's a depressing read isn't it. I'm not a fan of dogs at the best of times but that's enough to make you not want to go near them at all.

@vivainsomnia what are you trying to achieve here? Do you honestly believe horse attacks are on the rise at the same rate as dog attacks but the media just aren't covering it? You just do not see out of control dangerous horses chained up in people's gardens or in thier living rooms next to thier toddler, they are pets on a totally different scale and usually thier size and expensive needs mean that they aren't purchased on impulse in the same way as dogs.

It would be impossible to totally eliminate risk when it comes to animals, but it is a fact that dog attack and dog attack fatalities is on the rise and something needs to be done. You coming onto this thread saying 'what about the horses?' Is not helpful. If you feel horses are such a threat, start your own thread about them and see how far it gets you.

I can’t find any reports of dogs hurt or killed by a bolting horse. However, I did find figures for reported dog attacks on horses 2010-20:

“Since 2010 we have had 1,716 dog related incidents reported to us which regrettably includes 25 horse fatalities, 3 human fatalities, 575 horses injured alongside 526 humans injured, with an increase of incidents being reported over the last couple of years. Unfortunately, we believe these numbers maybe significantly higher as only 1 in 10 incidents are reported to us. In recent years, the BHS has become aware of a great increase in dog related incidents involving horses – not just on loose horses in fields, but also on those being ridden or driven.” Via British Horse Society 2020

It applies to all open access land as far as I am aware. Birds nest in woodlands as well as on moorland! So much ignorance when it comes to wildlife!

www.wildlifebcn.org/news/ground-nesting-birds-dogs-leads