Just not convinced that DD doesn’t want children

[Lilliansway]

Last year, after unsuccessfully TTC for 3 years, DD and her DH were diagnosed with unexplained infertility. It hit DD very hard indeed. She‘s an only child and has always told me that her dream is to have a big family. Since being a teenager she’d told me of a deep rooted fear/instinct she had that she couldn't have children. As a mother, I of course tried to rationalise these fears, yet sadly those fears have become a reality.

Up until now they’ve been on the waitlist for IVF, until today DD tells me that they are no longer going to have children and have decided to get a dog instead. DD says that they just don’t want children after all and will be happier and wealthier in the long run without. Hearing this was a shock, given DD’s prior wishes and I can’t help but feel that it’s a decision to protect herself from the stress/potential disappointment of IVF, as I know she can bury her head in the sand and avoid tough situations.

I don’t want to be a pushy parent but equally it would break my heart to sit by and watch DD to avoid something she really does want, only to regret it later in life when it’s far too late. They are both turning 30 this year, so they don’t have time on their side either. Would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to raise this topic sensitively with DD.

Also the thing about unexplained infertility is that the IVF may very well not work for ...unexplained... reasons. You don't know that your issue is one that IVF could successfully resolve, it's just a horrible gamble.

Sounds like your DD has taken a sensible approach with a plan B should what they wanted didn't work out. We had the same.

Leave her to it.

I've had friends who wanted kids in their 20s and actually decided in their 30s they don't want them and have been happily child-free.

It’s none of your business. And is it really about her not having children, or you not having grandchildren?

Also I've known people who have fertility issues and decide they cannot face the expense and difficulty of IVF and don't want to adopt, so have refocused on being child free, and seem to be fine with it now.

I know it sounds counter intuitive but IVF doesn't necessarily increase your chances of getting pregnant compared to regular sex- so leave well alone.

The only thing that will happen if you raise this question again is that your DD will get upset about it, or she will never talk to you about it ever again (as she may well already have done). You have no idea what is actually going on in her head or what plans she may have for the future but no good can come of any kind of intervention from you, no matter how sensitively you think you have raised it. No matter how well you know her and how you think she may regret it later etc, there is absolutely nothing you can say or do that will help, other than being there for her, talking about what she wants to talk about and leaving the whole subject well alone.

I completely agree and I find it frustrating the number of people saying the OP’s DD has plenty of time. When you have unexplained fertility every year counts. I couldn’t conceive naturally in my mid twenties, so I’m sure as hell not going to conceive in my early 40s, regardless of anecdotes of women conceiving in their 40s.

I also see no problem with the OP having a gentle conversation with her DD to see if it is what she really wants. After my first round of IVF I was ready to give up, but it was just out of frustration with my situation and the shit first round I had.

She may not want to go through invasive procedures with an uncertain outcome.

it may also be that despite her wishes as a teen, having been forced to really sit down and think as to whether children are something she wants, she’s genuinely changed her mind.

either way, it’s her decision. If you’re close and it’s something she wants to talk to you about, then she will. Let her take the lead. She’s an adult, married woman that’s got a better grasp on what she wants and what she’s likely to regret than you do.

Just support her and don’t push, and if she changes her mind, support her then too :)

Science doesn’t understand this “switch” because it just does not exist. You just got pregnant. There was always a chance that could happen.

It doesn't matter if she has lots of time or 10 minutes. I am sure the OP's DD will know an awful lot more about the subject than the OP does.

This is not a topic where 'mummy knows best'.

You support her in her decision, but otherwise leave things alone. Whatever your DD and her DH want to do, it is their decision, and I mean this kindly, but you just have to let them do what they want. They may change their minds, they may not, but please do not interfere. It is possible for people to live a happy life without children.

I think it's germane that none of us knows the OP or her DD, so nobody actually knows - other than the OP - how her DD would react to her bringing the subject up. Some people here clearly have a very different relationship with their own mothers and daughters from the relationships I have with mine. I would also be able to tell the difference between DD saying something and meaning it (which is where I'd keep out of it), and her saying something and actually wanting me to poke my nose in. I think it's a bit sad that there are so many people who say that a mother/daughter relationship will inevitably be ruined by a mother asking her if this is what she really wants. Relationships have endless nuances, and all we can all do is project our own mother/daughter relationship experiences onto the OP and her DD.

Technically, that's not true. Studies have shown that stress levels can effect chances of women getting pregnant. Therefore if IVF is an emotionally and physically stressful process, it could definitely be the case that especially working with many women going through IVF, doctors might see this known phenomenon played out anecdotally.

That doesn't obviously mean women need to "just stop stressing" or "just give up" nor am I trying to say that any pregnancy conceived after failed IVF is down to this stress thing either. Just pointing out it's probably not 100% unfounded.

And it's just awful that some posters are trying to claim superior relationships with their own daughters by saying they'd 'just know' instinctively to intervene.

The OP's dd has been open enough with her to talk about their fertility journey and her heartache. She now says enough, they don't want to pursue IVF and are accepting the fact they may not have a child. Why can't some posters accept that actually, the dd has made it clear what she feels?

This is true.

But I also would like to point out that it's not always about how close your relationship is. I'm very close to my mum but I'm also a very reserved person, so I might not want to share all of my feelings even to those closest to me. OP even knowing the daughter as well as a mother knows a daughter still needs to realise that she is a different person with a different personality and therefore her perceptions don't automatically apply to anyone, even her own daughter.

^ And that respecting everyone's boundaries and the fact that they are different is always relevant, even in ultra super close relationships.

It may be that they are going to take some time out and try later. She’s not even 30. I didn’t even want kids until I turned 30, and then needed IVF.

They may have decided to proceed with IVF but not to tell ANYONE. The pressure for success is huge. We didn’t tell a soul for this reason. They will find it easier to wade through if they keep it to themselves.

What you say might be true....and?
I'm also curious as to what gems of advice do you have for them? Do you seriously think you can tell anything they haven't considered? How arrogant
You accept their decision and you butt out!

I agree. I couldn't imagine not having a close enough relationship with my daughters to talk them about this. It's not about a "supposed superior relationship" - it's just the relationship we have. Of course I'd support them 100%, but I don't see why a gentle, "are you sure about this?" is going to give the DD a fit of the vapours?? I speak as someone with a history of infertility and miscarriages. My mother knew all about it and I talked to her about it too.

I think @Lilliansway that you have had some very rude and unkind responses. This is clearly a huge disappointment for you too - there's nothing wrong with hoping to be a granny one day! You have to process this as well!

Enjoy your granddog, and see what happens - and don't let some of the responses here get you down x

Tragic Career Women and their Withered Boss Ovaries
😂😂😂😂😍

Also - great & thought-provoking post, @SpanishOnion, about the unconscious bias women are prone to about their own fertility, depending on what messages they have internalised from specific environments or broader social tropes.

@freyamay74

Knowing how your adult daughter ticks is not claiming superiority, that is ridiculous. My own mother can read me like a book, is it a bit annoying sometimes? Possibly. She certainly does respect my boundaries but she can’t help but know me her daughter. Yes we do have open and honest dialogue. We do not always agree but our relationship has a foundation of respect. I would hope me and my daughter will be the same when she’s an adult.

@musicalgymball I hear what you are saying but at the ivf clinic I went to, at 35 I had a 51% chance of becoming pregnant each cycle. Pretty good odds so at 29, I do think they have time although obviously, nothing is a certainty.

Affordability might be an issue though as we saved to go private and researched the clinic we chose based on results. Many clinics have far lower success rates.

What I will say was that it was traumatic as a process. Maybe the OPs daughter knows that and isn't ready for it (and may never be.)

Obviously the decision is her daughters to make but I would have hoped that at least sometimes, supportive and helpful conversations could happen between a mum and a daughter on this topic.

So they can @JussathoB - but not to shoehorn it in as unasked for advice.

PP aren't forbidding conversation, they are simply responding sensibly to - how to raise this topic sensitively with DD - by explaining why it must NOT be raised, but that OP must bear the sadness & frustration of not making any suggestions unless they are expressly invited.

Nobody, not even her mother, can presume they know more than the DD about "what's best for her", which is the clear imputation, given the phrasing of this -
I don’t want to be a pushy parent but equally it would break my heart to sit by and watch DD to avoid something she really does want, only to regret it later in life when it’s far too late.
and this -
to protect herself from the stress/potential disappointment of IVF, as I know she can bury her head in the sand and avoid tough situations.

**