Just not convinced that DD doesn’t want children

[Lilliansway]

Last year, after unsuccessfully TTC for 3 years, DD and her DH were diagnosed with unexplained infertility. It hit DD very hard indeed. She‘s an only child and has always told me that her dream is to have a big family. Since being a teenager she’d told me of a deep rooted fear/instinct she had that she couldn't have children. As a mother, I of course tried to rationalise these fears, yet sadly those fears have become a reality.

Up until now they’ve been on the waitlist for IVF, until today DD tells me that they are no longer going to have children and have decided to get a dog instead. DD says that they just don’t want children after all and will be happier and wealthier in the long run without. Hearing this was a shock, given DD’s prior wishes and I can’t help but feel that it’s a decision to protect herself from the stress/potential disappointment of IVF, as I know she can bury her head in the sand and avoid tough situations.

I don’t want to be a pushy parent but equally it would break my heart to sit by and watch DD to avoid something she really does want, only to regret it later in life when it’s far too late. They are both turning 30 this year, so they don’t have time on their side either. Would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to raise this topic sensitively with DD.

That is kind of you Pond, & also gives me a chance to correct a sentence that was not well said at all!

Do you know more about how to get information, help, & access to expert fertility specialists that you do?
Should of course have been -
Do you know more about how to get information, help, & access to expert fertility specialists that SHE DOES?

Apologies to the PP concerned, as the original version could have been seen as a very rude dig. - I was NOT implying she knew less than she thinks she does! Just stating that she does not know more about her DD's thought processes or have a better information silo than her DD does herself.

Any woman in OP's daughter's situation is reading & consulting avidly, they don't need any well-meaning "but are you sure?" or "but have you considered XYZ" - of course they have, it won't be news to them.

You’re quite clearly projecting. Your DD is not you.

I mean this kindly, OP.

Fuck off.

OK, I don't.

As someone who has 2 DC thanks only to IVF, back the fuck off @Lilliansway I used to get so pissed off when my DM would say 'whatever you say I know you want children' Yes, I bloody well wanted them, but was acutely aware it might not happen and I needed to prepare and enjoy a life without children with my DH. How dare you undermine your DD on this!

I sympathise as my dd has fertility issues.

My heart breaks for her, she underwent the first round of IVF, two beautiful little embryos were implanted and we were all so hopeful they would stay to join our family but sadly they couldn’t.
IVF is hard, traumatic and painful.
It’s a lottery, for every success story there are many more failures. My DD couldn’t go through it all again, she has PTSD from it. It’s so sad, she and her DH would make fantastic parents. She puts on a brave face but I know it hurts. I’d love more grandchildren but short of a miracle it’s not going to happen.
As a parent I felt
helpless, still do to an extent. Us mums fix everything right? Well a head rub and a magic plaster couldn’t fix this.

My heart breaks for her, she underwent the first round of IVF, two beautiful little embryos were implanted and we were all so hopeful they would stay to join our family but sadly they couldn’t.
It’s a lottery, for every success story there are many more failures. My DD couldn’t go through it all again, she has PTSD from it. It’s so sad, she and her DH would make fantastic parents. She puts on a brave face but I know it hurts.
They have a dog now, he’s almost a year old and he’s the light of their lives. He even had a Christmas Eve Box! He’s gorgeous.
What do you do to help? You support her in whatever decision
she and her partner make. For all of your sakes don’t pressurise her into doing what YOU want her to do. Just be there for her with open arms.

Oops proof reading failure.

You asked "what?" so I will explain.

See how it works? You have given me permission to explain, so I can safely assume I am not laying an unwanted lecture on you. The difference being you genuinely don't understand, whereas OP's daughter will definitely already understand what her mother is anxious to 'mumsplain' to her.
(Apologies OP, but is is seriously likely that DD may receive your concern as an inability to appreciate that she knows her own mind, & far more about her IVF options than you do.)

Back to the explanation MissWIngs -
You are mistaking confirmation bias for coincidence, & interpreting an astoundingly common "coincidence" as evidence of something spooky like a sixth sense.

btw - humans have more than 5 senses, debate is still ongoing about how many, but most boffins agree 7 - 9. Sixth sense is a fiction, an amalgam of various intuitions & hidden thought process, but I'll close with a link rather than banging on because we're getting close to derailment.
www.bbc.com/future/article/20141118-how-many-senses-do-you-have

Sometimes, kids, of all and any age, just want to offload...just say the words out loud that are in their head... they dont want you to fix it...
This decision is between your daughter and her husband... they have plenty of time to change their mind...if they want to....
They could try ttc again, they could foster, they could adopt... they could travel the world... but it would be for them to decide..
Continue to be a sounding-board..... you are priviledged that she confides in you...

You need to leave her to make her own decisions. DH and I always said if children didn't come.naturally we wouldn't follow IVF. Part of that was because I know how I am as a person - somewhat obsessive, often self critical. IVF would have made life unbearable for me, and probably would destroy our marriage. Children weren't worth that.
Thankfully we haven't had to face that situation, but many have. It's a valid choice even if children were originally wanted. Leave them to it.

That's pretty much my point, though. I would hope that we all know our daughters well enough to know when it's appropriate and sensible to say something, and when it's best left. This obviously presupposes that we know that our daughters are different people with different personalities. What might be right for one of my daughters wouldn't necessarily be right for another. One of my sisters, for example, is very self contained, and I wouldn't dream of asking her why she hasn't had children. She has never mentioned it, and that is my cue not to mention it in turn. But my point is that only the OP can know what is right in this situation. The majority of PP are saying she's basically a disgusting individual for even thinking about broaching it with her DD. I think this is wrong.

I am not suggesting there's anything superior about a mother/daughter relationship where everything is up for discussion, btw. I am merely saying that this is my experience with my mum, and with my own adult daughter. But that is what works for us. Again, only the OP can know what works for her and her DD.

After 2 years of TTC, 3 miscarriages (one past 12 weeks) we decided to take a break. We were offered IVF and took some time to consider it. I’ve seen a couple of friends a colleague go through it and we decided against. We got a fantastic dog and we’re blissfully happy! We have a great life together and we can do whatever we want, whenever we want.

My mum never broached the subject. I told her when we turned down IVF and her response was perfect - “there’s lots of ways to live a happy life, do whatever makes you happy”

My MIL on the other hand made her disappointment very obvious which ensured that neither of us ever discussed it with her ever again. She doesn’t know the full story and never will. And I’ll never really forgive her for making me feel ‘less than’ because I haven’t provided her with a grandchild.

I put dds wants and needs above my own!

So do that! Accept her decision.

I think there's a world of difference between being "disappointed" (why would you be? And why would you dump that on your daughter/son?) and having the kind of relationship where you can ask them if they are sure it's what they really want. I think there's a slightly odd assumption on this thread (probably because I'm now an oldie in MN world) that all older women just want to have grandchildren. If I do, great. If I don't, great. My son is gay, btw, so I've had a lot of very different (and very open) conversations with him about egg donors, surrogacy, sperm donation etc. That is just the relationship I have with my children. I don't inflict it on them - we just talk about stuff, all the time. But as I keep saying: only the OP knows what kind of relationship she has with her DD, and only she can know whether it's appropriate to say anything or nothing.

The OP does show some insight into her dd and her decision. The OP says, 'I can’t help but feel that it’s a decision to protect herself from the stress/potential disappointment of IVF'

And that's an entirely valid reason for her and her dh to not want to pursue IVF. They've been trying to conceive for 3 years. They have gone through the mental and physical ordeal of investigations and have clearly had a lot of discussion with the medics as they went on the IVF waiting list. They have now decided against it. I know people who've been through IVF - it's an incredible pressure.

Why the OP thinks it might be helpful at this point to start telling her dd 'time is running out' and that she might regret her decision is utterly awful.

Having been through 3 years of trying, is it beyond the realms of imagination to realise the dd and her dh will have thought about this endlessly, discussed it, agonised over it?....

Please OP I hope the 99% of people on here have got through to you that you need to back off. Just be there. Be the support they need. For their decision.

OP

You could have avoided this discussion if, when told, you had said "I know you have had a hard time over the last few years. That must have been a difficult decision. Do you want to talk a bit more about how you feel about it?". Then you would have your answer - either DD would tell you she doesn't want to talk, or she would tell you more about the decision and you could listen to her and understand more about what lies beneath. Totally normal to want to know whether DD is making a decision driven by her current emotions rather than her future wants. Instead, you've started a discussion about whether you should, in effect, question her on the basis that she is probably wrong and might regret it. I think that's why you've had a hard time on here - it's the tone of what you are asking, rather than the idea that you might discuss the subject with your DD if she wants to open up to you.

It’s a very difficult journey. Do you think it’s possible that she’s said they aren’t continuing on their journey but actually are?

We told everyone we’d changed our minds and weren’t TTC anymore but actually had two IVF cycles without anyone knowing, just couldn’t take the heightened expectations from well-meaning family/friends on top of our desperation already. It helped a lot to relax.

Whole-heartedly agree with this

Agree, it sounds to me that she’s been brought up to believe having children is the be and end all of life.

My understanding is that studies have shown that stress can sometimes delay conception by a few months in normally fertile couples, but that is not at all the same as it being responsible for persistent long term infertility going on for years. When we first started ttc I knew it could take time, didn’t worry for a year and didn’t seek medical advice until we’d been trying for 18 months.

I bc was your daughter and although sometimes I get a feeling of wishing I had a child but then I make my peace again. IVF is gruelling and has a low success rate and that why we decided against it. My life is still wonderful, we are comfortable financially, I have less stress (never having to juggle work and childcare) and it obviously wasn’t the path I was meant to walk down.

And yet - you are not her.

You can't unregret her fantasy future, as if she was an alternate version of you.

30 is still young, in terms of fertile years. Let them relax and not think about it any more with their dog, and perhaps nature will be kind. Perhaps after a year or so she may wish to try IVF, perhaps never. It's her life.

I can understand your concern OP. If my child had always said they wanted something and then changed their mind, especially if there’s another person involved, I would talk to them about it, just to make sure they were ok and to let them know I’m there.

You don't!

Mind your own business!

1. They may still be doing the IVF but have chosen to keep it private because they don't want to constantly have to update everyone / tell people if it fails.

1. Being child free is a valid choice.

1. Yes, they do have time on their side. Even if they waited five years to change their mind and had to be re-referred they would still be under 40 for their IVF rounds and have a chance of conception.

1. They may choose to pursue other avenues to start a family such as adoption instead of IVF but not be ready to discuss this yet / start the process yet.

1. Lots of people realise as they age that their teenage dreams were stupid or actually, not for them. She may well have realised during this infertility journey that her original stance doesn't actually marry up to what she wants now.

Or 6. She may have realised that children were what you wanted for her, rather than what she wanted for herself. Sometimes when you are a child or teen it is hard to know the difference.