Just not convinced that DD doesn’t want children

[Lilliansway]

Last year, after unsuccessfully TTC for 3 years, DD and her DH were diagnosed with unexplained infertility. It hit DD very hard indeed. She‘s an only child and has always told me that her dream is to have a big family. Since being a teenager she’d told me of a deep rooted fear/instinct she had that she couldn't have children. As a mother, I of course tried to rationalise these fears, yet sadly those fears have become a reality.

Up until now they’ve been on the waitlist for IVF, until today DD tells me that they are no longer going to have children and have decided to get a dog instead. DD says that they just don’t want children after all and will be happier and wealthier in the long run without. Hearing this was a shock, given DD’s prior wishes and I can’t help but feel that it’s a decision to protect herself from the stress/potential disappointment of IVF, as I know she can bury her head in the sand and avoid tough situations.

I don’t want to be a pushy parent but equally it would break my heart to sit by and watch DD to avoid something she really does want, only to regret it later in life when it’s far too late. They are both turning 30 this year, so they don’t have time on their side either. Would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to raise this topic sensitively with DD.

I think sometimes some people who haven't been through infertility don't realise that for a lot of people who have tried and haven't had children it's because they have chosen to stop at some point

Whether that's before ivf or after so many rounds, whether that's not choosing to consider alternative routes like surrogacy or adoption or whether it's not choosing to have an investigation when you don't conceive

Some people are completely unable to have kids like if they have no uterus for example but for a lot of us kids are technically possible but at a significantly reduced success rate.

Pre menopause many people could continue with more and more and more rounds of ivf for example and eventually they could get pregnant. but most people do not have the money or the emotional resilience to keep going.

My limit was 4 rounds of ivf. I had enough eggs for 8 rounds so technically I could have continued but financially and emotionally I couldn't.

And one of the things I found hardest was accepting that I had to say when to stop, it would have been easier if someone else had told me.

I will never stop regretting not being able to have children. I frequently regret not having one more round of ivf because what if. I also absolutely know that the best thing for my physical, mental and emotional health and also my partners emotional health was for us to stop when we stopped.

Do not try to interfer please. If she wants to tell you anything else she will, but don't force it out of her when she might not feel strong enough to talk about it.

I found it was far harder to say stop than to continue blindly going through the process so if she has found that strength and clarity at this point I think she had the strength and clarity to realise herself if she changes her mind and to do something about it.

I agree wholeheartedly with this - said much more eloquently than my post!

I've told my mum that I'm not having children and instead will get a dog.

That's because it's too painful to actually say to her that having a miscarriage and now not being able to conceive naturally (albeit we haven't had any tests) is devastating me emotionally and I can't imagine not being able to have children with my husband. So it's easier to brush it away like this.

Plus dogs are great.

Do you believe she is saying this because they can't afford IVF privately and NHS wait is 2-3 years? If you can afford to help her to go privately you could quietly make her that offer when you get a minute alone but also add you understand it is entirely her and her DH decision to make.

They might consider adopting a child later. The good thing about adoption is they will still welcome potential parents in their 30's.

This was what I was trying to agree wholeheartedly with!

I am hearing your feedback, but I wish to clarify this isn’t about me at all.

Well, it is about you. Isn’t it?

If it wasn’t, you’d respect your DD’s decision and not even write this thread at all.

You can’t do anything. If she lives with regret, then she lives with regret.

This has probably been a very difficult and traumatic decision for her.

Respect her decision and move on.

Your relationship with your mum (re: your post previous to this) may be very different from this young woman's with OP. There are already hints that OP is over-involved, quite probably not intentionally, & any intervention she makes could prove counter-productive to her DD's future trust & confidence.

I'm not saying you don't raise good points about HOW to discuss this thorny topic - you do! - but disagree with WHEN. The only time OP should address this painful subject is IF DD raises it with her.

Also - I can't imagine, after 3 years TTC & having reached her huge decision not to take the IVF route, that she is any less informed than any PP here, or has not accessed her own fertility doctor. Presuming that she hasn't, or that OP has any more information than DD does herself, could produce the kind of pain that so many PP have generously recounted here, from their own mothers' reactions.

Your fertility does decline from 30. I thought that was common knowledge!
I disagree with most people on here. I would appreciate my mother coming to me with her thoughts, which would be from a caring and loving place. I would hate to see my daughter miss out.

This won't have been a decision they have made lightly. IVF isn't their only other choice and they have STILL decided not to do it. That is completely ok, and it is completely ok if they change their minds in the future. Offer advice when asked, but don't push it on anyone. She will definitely be feeling like she is letting enough people down without you reminding her.

They are both turning 30 this year, so they don’t have time on their side either

So your daughter and her DP are 29. And so, plenty of time then. 🙄

You absolutely must not raise this with them or even subtly allude to it again. If they want to talk about this entirely private and personal thing that affects their fertility with you, then they will

This, in spades. Like virtually every poster has said.

I cannot believe you think 29 is not 'having time on their side.' 29! Jeez.

To be fair at 30 with unexplained infertility you do not have time on your side. My cousin also had a strong instinct from a young age she would not be able to have children and she was right. I always found that a bit spooky.

If it was my mum and I was in this situation I think we would have chatted about my reasons and I would have expected her to ask a few questions and chat about it a bit - because that is what we normally do about all sorts of issues. It depends what your relationship is like and whether she seems open to talking about it.

I’ve had multiple miscarriages, including 3 before I had a child, so I do understand feeling desperate about not having children and not sure whether I could keep trying and feeling such grief.

Also - I can't imagine, after 3 years TTC & having reached her huge decision not to take the IVF route, that she is any less informed than any PP here, or has not accessed her own fertility doctor.*

This.

Awful that the OP and a few other randoms on here don't seem to think the dd will have thought this all through. She started trying to conceive at about age 26 - pretty young these days. In what world is it remotely helpful for her mother to start 'helpfully' reminding het that she may be even less fertile in future than she has been until now.

Jesus wept.

What would you realistically do OP?
Surely your DD has thought about her future and made her own informed decision.
She's an adult. Her body her choice and if she regrets it later on then let it be so.

It's understandable you are worried but you have let her live her own life now.

With the best will in the world you have to leave this decision to them. IVF can be horrendous. As someone who has done it and ended up with 2 still born babies and no living children I know the heartbreak and devastation it can bring. Only they know if they are strong enough to deal with that.

Your first sentence says it's not about you, then the rest of your post is entirely about you. Give your head a wobble.

Yup, I think she has either made a very sane choice to protect her mental health from the stress of trying, or she just wants everyone to back off.

Everyone includes you, OP. It is absolutely soul destroying having a parent put their angst about your issue on you. This shines through from your post - you are worrying so much on her behalf. She doesn't need this. What she needs is someone to say "ok, I totally understand your feelings on this and will support you with whatever you decide".

Your DD is her own person.

Your regrets are your own. Any regrets your DD has will be hers. She will learn to live with and come to terms with them in the same way that we all come to terms with our regrets.

Or maybe she won't regret her decision.

Your have no right to raise the subject with her. She and her husband have come to a decision on the matter. You must just accept that decision and not put added, unwanted, pressure on her to put her body through a tough process because you think you know what's best for her.

What she and her husband decide to do about having children is no one's business but theirs.

She's still not even 30. If she and her husband do change their minds they still have plenty of years ahead, not sure why you think time isn't on their side, but meanwhile mind your own business and treat their decision with the same respect that, I hope, you'd treat the same decision made by any other adult.

This.

Very wise words.

OP, your DD has been very open with you about this. I am wondering why she has been so anxious about this since being a teenager. Is she subconsciously worried about letting you down, as your only child? My view is, the kindest thing you can do is never mention it again. Change the subject to the dog, and holidays. It is her choice to regret or not.

Also, she is not yet 30 so actually, she does have time on her side if she has a change of heart.

Sorry, but saying they don’t have time on their side when they are not even 30 is horrendously tone deaf. Also, let your DD come to her own conclusions with her DH - it’s honestly just not your business. And under no circumstances start with fear mongering over her age and “running out of time”

But it's for the OP's daughter to decide about timing, age, egg-freezing etc.

I don't think it's remotely spooky that someone who was afraid she couldn't have children turned out not to be able to -- the media has long been full of stories about Tragic Career Women and their Withered Boss Ovaries, Fertility Falling Off a Cliff At 35, IVF stories, stories about celebrities like Jennifer Aniston etc. It's hardly surprising that some women internalise those messages.

On the flip side, I never wanted children, and always believed I was ultra-fertile, so I was fanatical about contraception -- again, it's hardly surprising that I believed this, as I had a convent school education in the 70s and 80s, in a devoutly Catholic society which restricted access to contraception until into the 90s, and only recently legalised abortion. The type of sex education and general social/religious attitudes to sex I'd been around in my childhood and teens, as well as being the eldest of a large, poor family, meant it was pretty obvious I was afraid of my own potential fertility. I eventually decided to have a child, and was not at all surprised when I conceived not just the first month of trying, but the first time we had unprotected sex aged 40.

Gosh I am so sad to read all these posts which suggest that the OPs thoughts or potential discussion with her daughter might be ‘invasive’ or ‘undermine’ her daughter, and that it’s none of her business. I’m sure OP is concerned out of love for her daughter. Obviously the decision is her daughters to make but I would have hoped that at least sometimes, supportive and helpful conversations could happen between a mum and a daughter on this topic.
I do agree that at 30 there is still fortunately plenty of time, and if anything I would have thought it best at this stage to keep possibilities open.

@Lilliansway

yabu.

you don’t raise it with her. You keep your thoughts to yourself.

also, when you say that they don’t have time on their side. You’re wrong.

hth

I'm your dd 13 years in the future. I'd always suspected I'd struggle to get pregnant due to awful periods and went through 4 years of hell trying to get pregnant and stay pregnant including an ectopic pregnancy that could have killed me. I couldn't face ivf. The thought of more hormones, more stress, more failure was harder than the thought of getting on with life, travelling and focusing on my career. I got pregnant with my one and only that month. I couldn't face the hell of ever trying again.

She'll have gone over and over her decision and she needs your support.

Please don't ask if she has thought of/knows about XYZ.

One of the things I found particularly difficult was my DM's well meaning but totally intrusive prying into a private part of our lives.