Just not convinced that DD doesn’t want children

[Lilliansway]

Last year, after unsuccessfully TTC for 3 years, DD and her DH were diagnosed with unexplained infertility. It hit DD very hard indeed. She‘s an only child and has always told me that her dream is to have a big family. Since being a teenager she’d told me of a deep rooted fear/instinct she had that she couldn't have children. As a mother, I of course tried to rationalise these fears, yet sadly those fears have become a reality.

Up until now they’ve been on the waitlist for IVF, until today DD tells me that they are no longer going to have children and have decided to get a dog instead. DD says that they just don’t want children after all and will be happier and wealthier in the long run without. Hearing this was a shock, given DD’s prior wishes and I can’t help but feel that it’s a decision to protect herself from the stress/potential disappointment of IVF, as I know she can bury her head in the sand and avoid tough situations.

I don’t want to be a pushy parent but equally it would break my heart to sit by and watch DD to avoid something she really does want, only to regret it later in life when it’s far too late. They are both turning 30 this year, so they don’t have time on their side either. Would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to raise this topic sensitively with DD.

This is gently intentioned OP - can you see the contradiction between what you say in your clarification & what you then detail as your concern?

DD already know she is going to be living with regret.

She may not even know herself yet if this is a permanent decision. But that is for HER to ruminate on. You can do so as well - but not verbally with DD - only in your own head, or with trusted confidantes.

Please make sure she does not have to live with YOUR regret as well as her own.

After TTC for 3 years there becomes a point where you are just sick of all things related to TTC. Sick of living life in 2 week waits - 2 weeks to ovulate and 2 weeks to see if it's worked. Sick of putting life on hold "better not book that holiday I might be pregnant then". It's all consuming for most couples and what you wanted 3 years ago changes.

I can imagine she's just sick of it.

But she is ONLY 29. She may decide in a year or 2 to go for IVF after a break from all things TTC. Or she may not. Both outcomes are fine with her.

Have you thought that actually they might be about to start ivf and just don't want to share that journey? Have you been giving her advice such as "maybe this wasn't your month" "it'll happen if you relax" "my friend so and so's daughter tried for 3 years and got pregnant right in the last month before ivf started" and all the other cliché shit people like to say to those of us with infertility?
It might seem like the right thing to say, but it often isn't. Ivf is hard and people love to get involved and are dying to know if it worked. Maybe just give them space and let them do whatever they please. They have plenty of time on their side!!

"They are both turning 30 this year, so they don’t have time on their side either."

Eh? Just leave them alone. Maybe they don't want you asking about it all the time and saying stupid, inaccurate and insensitive things like this.

Attitudes like "time is not on her side" when she's only 29 is probably some of the reason she feels like its not worth bothering. What a ridiculous opinion for you to have in the 21st century. Maybe she's going ahead in secret with IVF and just not telling you because of your judgemental rude opinions?

There is a massive difference between wanting kids when you can have them 'naturally'(sorry, can't think of a better term) and wanting kids when you have to go through invasive treatments. Stay out of it. They are not even 30 yet. If it's unexplained it might happen when they are relaxed and not trying. And maybe in a few years they want to go through the IVF route once they have processed everything. Or maybe they will live a happy childfree life.

Wanting something when you're a teenager is very different to looking at it with adult experience and insight

This. when I was a teenager I wanted at least 4 children. at one point I claimed to want 16 (I think I was hoping for twins and triplets rather than 16 pregnancies) . as a postgrad student I was a lodger in a house with a single mum of a 1yo and got to understand how much work it all was and by the time I was 30 I wasn't at all sure I wanted kids at all and certainly wouldn't have gone through IVF to get pg.

if the dd changes her mind again there's still time for ivf in a few years.

I don’t know why everyone is getting g their knickers in a twist about the 30 comment, your fertility does decline from 30, and even more so from 35 so she doesn’t that’s time on her side if she can’t do it naturally.

That being said, I’d still butt out, tell her you’re always there to give support if she changes her mind.

Leave it, she is processing her emotions and current situation as she feels appropriate. She is still in her 20s, she is fine with time. It's not your business what she decides

But she isn't you.

And IVF is so hard on the body, the mind as well as a relationship. She's not even 30 for godsake! Butt out, she has made that decision and trusted to share it with you. Your opinion doesn't matter here and will not help. Stay out of her uterus and let her enjoy her life, whatever she decides.

Its perfectly fine not to want go down the IVF route, for whatever reason.

OP, read @KettrickenSmiled's post several times and do as it suggests. You sound as though you have some unresolved issues about having fewer children than you wanted yourself, so maybe it's worth talking that through with a friend or a counsellor to make sure you aren't foisting your own regrets onto your daughter, who is not you. Respect her decision. It is hers.

It's possibly a theme DD heard something about as a child, asking the questions most kids ask about families, & their own siblings/lack of/childlike wish for brothers & sisters.

I regret only having one child myself, so I’m certain I’d have bitterly regretted not having any children had I have chosen that.

My biggest regret was telling DM we were TTC.

Every time I spoke to her I would be quizzed on whether we had 'any news', was it my fault or DH's fault? Had we considered IVF, adoption? Not that she wanted an adopted GC but to take our minds off baby making so that it would happen 'naturally'.

You don't raise it. They are grown adults.

What you do is respect and support them in whatever decision they make.

Deciding to undergo IVF treatment is a big thing OP - doesn't sound like you needed IVF to have your daughter so you have no idea of what it feels like to go through the process. I do however actually understand why you are worried for her - I would be if it were one of my children who had made that decision but IVF isn't for everyone. I did IVF because I didn't want to have regrets later in life that there was something I could have tried but didn't but that's me and that what I decided I could/couldn't live with

I guess you could have a sensitive talk with her about her reasons for not exploring IVF - funnily enough a member of another group im on is upset that she is outside of the age limit for NHS IVF having decided to continue to try naturally for several years and was preparing to mount (in my opinion - a pointless) appeal - perhaps be straight with her about the implications so she has all the information - NHS age limits, statistics for success depending on age. I think that's what I would do if she were my child so that she was clear that if she changed her mind years down the line the implications of that

Exactly.

I know quite a few women who conceived naturally (and for the first time, in several cases) well over age 40.

Don't rush people into parenthood.

I don't know why you would feel any need to be a "pushy parent" in your adult DC's life, especially in this situation.

Not wanting to go through the pain, uncertainty and potential grief and expense of failed IVF is such a valid reason to not pursue pregnancy, even if a "valid reason" was needed.

Your DD has weighed up all factors and the benefits of a child free life plus the disadvantages of the financial and emotional investment in IVF and childrearing have won out.

It doesn't mean your DD is pretending to not want children and I would be very sure to never ever frame it like that you her, yourself or anyone else. I'm sure if she was able to conceive naturally and easily over the last few years she would have done so, but she hasn't, and this decision is the outcome of her experience. Please respect that.

IVF is incredibly stressful, not great for your body either. The struggle to conceive takes over your whole life and has the potential to ruin some of the best years of your life with obsession.

Your DD and her DH have made an incredibly brave decision, one they feel is the right one for them and you can only support them.

I'm sure you're very disappointed but it will be nowhere near as bad as it is for them.

I often quote that rather corny serenity prayer.

God give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference.

I'm not sure god has much to do with it, but knowing the difference is vital to a happy life.

Your daughter is only 29 so she has plenty of time to change her mind, but you need to butt out because it is her body, her choice! In any case, no matter how much you want children sometimes it just does not happen. I have two good friends who are both now in their mid-forties and both went through gruelling cycles of IVF in their 30s without ever conceiving. Both have now accepted that pregnancy and childbirth wasn't going to happen for them. One looked into adoption and fostering, but ultimately her marriage broke down and she decided she didn't want to go down that route alone. The other threw herself into her career, her social life and has travelled whenever she has had the opportunity and she also has a succession of dogs who she adores. They are both happy and whilst I suspect they probably harbour a small amount of regret that they never had their own children, but as a Mum of two under ten I'd be lying if I said I didn't also harbour some jealously about their independent lifestyles!

Even though I'd been telling my mother since I was 9 that I didn't like children, didn't want children and wouldn't be having any children, she completely ignored me.

It got worse when I married for the first time, at 21. Six months after we married, I got offered my dream job as a news reporter on a local newspaper. It was a amazing opportunity, particularly as at the time I hadn't even been to university (father had refused to pay). The day I found out, I'd already arranged to meet my mother at a local cafe in our town centre. When she rang to confirm (this was a decade before mobile phones) I told her I had some exciting news to tell her. I turn up, she's already there, I sit down and tell her about the job. I can still see the look of disappointment, and even disgust, on her face as it fell a mile...'oh I thought you were going to tell me you were pregnant'....

That counts as one of the few times I've ever really sworn hard at my mother. I reminded her that my feelings regarding children had not changed, they weren't going to change, the reason I'd married my husband was because he didn't want children, either. She couldn't show even the faintest of pleasure for me at the job. Later that same year I was diagnosed with cervical cancer. Had the usual chemo, radiotherapy, etc. I was 'lucky' that it was just on the edge of not being far enough advanced that I would need a hysterotomy, which my oncologist really wanted to avoid, because of the early onset menopause it would cause.

Even after all that, my mother still fucking went on about me having children until I was 40, even though I'd been told by oncologists that yes, I could probably still get pregnant (and in fact did when I was 25 and 35,both times due to contraception failures, had terminations both times) the chances of going full term would have been virtually nil due to the scarring of my cervix and womb, and they strongly recommended that I didn't. I didn't share any of that with my mother, because as far as I was concerned all she needed to do was respect my decision. All the health info was none of her fucking business. I've never told her that I've been pregnant even once, let alone twice, and I never will.

Respect your daughter, mind your own business.

'I don’t know why everyone is getting g their knickers in a twist about the 30 comment, your fertility does decline from 30, and even more so from 35 so she doesn’t that’s time on her side if she can’t do it naturally.

And it's helpful to point this out to her dd how??????

Im sure her dd is aware of the natural average decline in fertility. She started trying for a baby pretty young if she's been trying 3 years and is still under 30. In what world would it be remotely helpful to keep sticking her nose in and reminding her dd about it

Anecdotal, but we tried for 3 years, then gave up and got a dog and I got pregnant pretty soon after. I had an appointment booked to go and talk about IVF, found out the night before!

I have heard of this happening to several people, she may just want a break from TTC and the accompanying pressures as we did. I'm fairly sure not trying = relaxing which may help, I think cortisol dramatically reduces your chances of getting pregnant. Also having the dog, something else to focus on, really helped with the destressing.

But as everyone says, it's their choice ultimately. I would just be supportive, let her get on with her life and see what happens.

What an emotive subject. I can see it from all sides. I think you need to just let her be now. As they have unexplained fertility there is always a chance she could fall pregnant naturally anyway. Sometimes life works in a very strange way and you just get your head around something not happening and make peace with it, when it happens and takes you by surprise.

just support her. Love her dog like it’s the most precious thing in the world and drop it as a subject.

30 is not old in ivf terms. She has plenty of time to change her mind again.

I did ivf with my 35 year old eggs and had children at 36 and 37.

You could start a relaxed conversation about it but do not be confrontational or too heavily serious, it is their choice!