To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

[NeedToChangeName]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

Please read this news story

And, if you think it's an issue, please keep reading / refreshing the story / sharing it

The longer this is kept in the public eye, the more politicians will know that it's a concern

Of course trans identifying makes should never be put in a woman’s prison.

I don’t care if they’ve been wearing makeup and high heels for 20 years, had a boob job and are one of the very, small number who have genital surgery, they still do NOT belong in a woman’s prison.

I think this should be posted on each page at the moment. The petition to get a debate in parliament to discuss how to strengthen the equality act to better protect all females.

Of all genders. Even if they choose to not think they need the Equality Act to protect their needs. (I suspect many understand that they still need those protections though, as runningoncoffee seems to)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?page=1

I know this is a serious topic, but is it wrong that I thought this sounds like a premise for a third rate sitcom?!

academic.oup.com/bjc/article/62/4/1000/6370239

‘She Was Just Like A Lassie’: Analysing The Views of Cis-Women In Custody About Their Experiences of Living With Transgender Women In The Scottish Prison Estate

Matthew Maycock, 14 September 2021

The latest official figures indicate a fall in the average number of women in custody between 2011–12 and 2016–17, followed by a relatively static female average prison population of under 400 women since 2016–17 (Scottish Government 2020). At the time of ethical approval for the study (May 2019), there were 379 women in custody in Scotland, equating to 4.6% of the prison population, located in five prisons2 across Scotland. In May 2019 there were 17 transgender people in custody.

A very biased report. But some comments such as:

She’s been caught having sex and stuff in here, and I think that’s wrong. Well, supposedly, she had stopped taking her medication for a bit and, supposedly, something had happened.

There’s a transgender [wo]man (Susan). He worked in the...my work party. His views were totally wrong. He wanted to be in this hall because he wanted to have sex with loads of lassies.

And it’s been like...aye. And it’s been like, well, wait a minute, you’ve still got that strength and whatever. You’re still acting like a man here. Like trying to get like authority over you.

She was never female before until she hit [name of prison] and then decided that she wanted to be a woman because she couldn’t handle it. I think she puts a lot of it on.

Several participants discussed transgender people who had transitioned in custody, but who had reverted to their birth gender following release. For example, Isla below outlines her acceptance of a transgender woman (Ruth) in her hall, reflecting on the hurt that this caused given the efforts she and other prisoners made to accept and welcome this person:

We treated that lassie (Ruth) as female. I treated that lassie with the greatest respect. And I always said that, what do you need? And then when Janice came back and told us that, after she got lib, it really kind of…it hurt. It hurt us, because we tried to help her, we tried to make her feel welcome. I felt personally she was a man wanting an easy escape from the male estate.

Ella shared similar experiences about different transgender people she had got to know while in custody. This for Ella resulted in a wider scepticism about the transitions of transgender people in custody:

The last one to get out, back living as a man. The one before that got out, back living as a man, while he was in the hall, was telling people, I’m stopping taking my medication because I can’t get a hard on. I’ve not a problem living with trans people, it’s living with people who are manipulating the system and pretending to be trans.

Can women even actively consent to sex while in prison?

Are women supposed to be offered contraception in prison now?

Women in California are indeed offered condoms now. And it won't be the only place, just the most recent one I've read of.

Prisons are sex segregated to protect women from men, not to reassure women that we think they're women.

If TW aren't safe in the main unit of a male prison, they can be held in a segregated wing there.

This.

This x100

Has this segment with Kate Coleman of KPSS been posted?

There is so much here.

Men should never be imprisoned with women, it's abhorrent cruelty.

I'll believe Nicola Sturgeon has complete faith in SPS risk assessment when she agrees to spend a night locked in a cell with a man who has been placed in the female prison estate.

You'd think it's commen sense wouldn't you.

Women in female prisons and Men in male prisons.....regardless of how they "feel " like a woman.....which is the biggest load of crap.....Woman isn't a feeling.🙄

Yeah but hell fucking no.

We gave about politicians the benefit of the doubt and trusted them to risk assess appropriately but they are clearly too fucking stupid to do that and as a consequence women have been raped, by men, in prison.

Male prisons have vulnerable prisoner units, if a male is vulnerable because of their gender identity then there is already an appropriate place for them to be housed and if that's not working then the "be kind" shit heads in parliament need to find a better solution. They invented "legal sex" so now they can fuck off and clean up the mess they made. It's not a women's problem to solve.

Off all the injustices women have suffered because of gender ideology this is the one I really will not stand for. It disgusts me that anyone would think women should be abused in this way.

Agree that men show zero interest in this - so rubbish. They'll only be bothered when 50% of their online dates end up having a penis after they've spent ages wining dining and snogging them

Has this been posted too?

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541

A sickening read. And experience from a few years before. This has been happening for a long time according to Kate Coleman (KPSS)

She said: “My whole time in prison on constant high alert, my nerves were frazzled with fear.

“These incredibly violent men were walking around the communal shower area naked and sometimes clearly aroused. Myself and other women were in cubicles with only a curtain to protect us.

“I was shaking with fear. In the end I went to the prison clinic and had a coil fitted because I believed I could be raped at any time. I didn’t want one, I felt forced to do it.

Abso-fucking-lutely @FOJN

Women have been raped in secure mental hospitals, one so badly she will never have children and then the powers that bought thought it a good idea to place that rapist, coincidentally also a paedophile, in a female prison with a mother and baby unit because he claimed to be a woman and to no-one with a shred of any sense was it a surprise when he sexually assaulted the women in that prison.

Women have been raped in hospital and the NHS has lied to the the Police and said It couldn't have happened, there were no men on the ward when in fact there was a transwoman aka man on the ward who did indeed rape the female patient The NHS upheld this lie for two fucking years.

So NO, an absolute NO toany man however they identify, whatever cosmetic, chemical or surgical alterations they have made to their bodies in ANY women's space whether that is toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospitals, refuges, sports - NONE, EVER.

Men should not be in women's prisons, full stop. Great data posted on twitter by braddockbessie calls bullshit on the idea that transwomen pose "no greater risk" to women.

Regardless of how triggering that might be for the women in the jail? What is 'living as a woman'? Should we let the women who don't conform to however you answer that into the women's jail too or do they have to go to the men's?

Women are loosing their rights every single fucking day. A man in a women's prison, although he is a RAPIST, then tells the courts he's a she! Fucking crazy!

The women will end up killing him - you can just see it. Or he will get special treatment and kept safe. Angers me

@PicklesAndTequila living as a woman means living with long hair, wearing a bra, putting on dresses and skirts. It means wearing lipstick and shaving every inch of your body. If you don't do these things then unfortunately you must not be a woman.

/sarcasm

I hope this doesn't come as offensive as I really don't intend it to. What is the difference between you as a transman on testoerone and a "butch" lesbian being in a women's prison? Neither conforms to female stereotypes but you are both female.

I'm fine with that.
Very very rare and a very small threat to female prisoners compared to rapists men who identify as women to get free access to trapped women who they can abuse with the state's full blessing.

I think it's much more likely that one of these men will end up killing a woman.

Wonder how Scottish people feel about SNP. Now that they’re coming after the rights of 50% of the population.