To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

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The longer this is kept in the public eye, the more politicians will know that it's a concern

Problem is.... if TW are women, then most former women aren't. So you still don't have a cohesive reason to categorise people like me and TW together. Hence there'd be no reason for us to be put in the same prison.

Anyway, perhaps you'll be the person brave enough to define what a 'woman' is - you must know if you say this.

Everyone else we've asked has refused to answer.

@PeonyBlush22 what is a woman? I would love to hear your answer to this

I’m so glad this is finally being discussed in the mainstream! I hope this is the beginning of the end of society’s most vulnerable women being treated as acceptable collateral damage in the gender wars.

Anyone noticed people quietly removing pronouns from their email signatures yet? I've noticed one colleague.

I know one who added them right before all this kicked off!! Baffling as she's very clued up on it.

Trans ‘women’ are not women, they are men. Dear God can someone please take me back to the 80’s!!😫

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I'm now taking the view that there are no trans women, it's just not a thing. They're men. What's good for the gander eh??

I mean. Even Nicola Sturgeon doesn't think that TW are women.... Or did you miss that one as well.

If TW were W, there would be no discussion about whether a woman would go into a woman's prison....

The entire mantra has crumbled.

But, I do admire your desperation though....

Argument by assertion is always so convincing.

An adult human with XX chromosomes, seems to work as a definition.

Where have all the people gone who used to pop up on these threads telling us we were hateful bigots?

Depends on the circumstances. If they transitioned 10 years ago and are in prison for tax evasion or something equally non violent then a women's prison is an entirely justifiable place to put a transwoman.

Isla Bryson I think we all have some reservations about to be honest.

The most practical solution all round would be a specialist wing in a prison that took trans prisoners from across the nation. Perhaps repurpose an existing vulnerable prisoners wing. Only real downside would be that some of them are placed further away from their family and friends.

This

Depends on the circumstances. If they transitioned 10 years ago and are in prison for tax evasion or something equally non violent then a women's prison is an entirely justifiable place to put a transwoman.

Can you explain your thinking on this? Does a conviction for tax evasion guarantee that a man is never going to intimidate or hurt a woman?

As 99% of reported rapes never even make it to a charge by the police, how do we know this man is not a rapist that just hasn’t been caught?

I think if they've had sex reassignment surgery - so no longer have a penis - it's pretty different to a man just deciding one day to call themselves a woman and expecting everyone around them to join in the game. In that instance, especially if its a non violent or sexual crime, then its correct that they are not locked up with men. Not sure they should automatically be put in with women either to be fair but they are going to be more vulnerable themselves so probably need a specialist "trans" unit somewhere.

You mis-spelled transwoman.

Transitioned 10 years ago = well established transition, clearly nothing to do with the prison process.

Non-violent crime = no evidence of violent inclinations. Thankfully our courts are evidence based; you cannot assume someone has committed a crime with zero evidence because the conviction rate is crap. You cannot prove a negative, as you ought to know.

I'd suggest a woman in a woman's prison on a murder charge is more likely to intimidate or hurt another woman than a transwoman serving time for tax evasion.

If you believe TWAW then you agree that cretins like Adam Graham belong in women's jails.

Reassignment surgery doesn't make you any less male. You're just a male who has surgically altered your body.

James Morton, manager of the Scottish Trans Alliance who had major input on the policy to put trans identifying males in women’s prisons strategised as follies:

”by enabling the (prison) service to include transwomen as women on a self declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure all other public services do likewise”

He means that including males in womens prisons is the worst possible scenario as the women are vulnerable and can’t get away from the men so if they can be persuaded to make that policy, they can then talk to the NHS and say ‘“well, they do it in womens prisons”

He knows that women in prison have the least representation or contact with anyone in order to complain. Often due to serious poverty and childcare issues they get very few visitors and because there are few womens prisons (because women are less likely to commit crime), women are housed a long way from family.

This is why we’ve ended up with women being actually raped in hospital wards as men are allowed to self id onto a female ward for any reason. In cases where women have complained because the man is violent or sexually aggressive, it is often the women who gets told off and moved, or in one case kicked out of hospital despite needing treatment. She was a rape victim (raped by a male nurse in hospital years ago) and was traumatised by the aggressive male who was slapping nurses.

She quietly and politely requested to be moved and she was accused of transphobia and discharged straightaway from hospital.

follows 🙄

Why should a woman, who has a much higher likelihood of having experienced trauma at the hands of males, have their already likely poor mental health risked by living in confines with a male.

You may use the word 'transwoman', but they are MALE.

And considering women also seem more likely to be able to accurately sex a person even after 'transition', why would you think this was at all appropriate. What is it that you think disguises their male cues? Even if they don't have a penis anymore?

Just how many of them do you think have the extreme cosmetic surgery where their face is peeled all the way back and they have bones shaved, implants added and their hairline lowered, the space between lips and nose narrowed?

And then just how many do you think have their voice modified via more surgery?

I'd suggest a woman in a woman's prison on a murder charge is more likely to intimidate or hurt another woman than a transwoman serving time for tax evasion.

Then you are simply ignoring that female inmates being in a prison with males they cannot just walk away from are being harmed simply by those males being there.

And that is also not acknowledging that a male may still have a functioning penis and that there are already women who have told their stories in the UK where they have been traumatised by the sexual harassment of wanking males or males who love to exhibit their erection in the showers.

Just because they are not in for a 'violent' crime, doesn't mean that they are not abusive, or that they have a violent history but just have never been convicted.

You also ignore that transitioned males who may have grip strength in the lower 25% of all males, still have grip strength stronger than women in the 90th percentile of all women. And that is just grip strength.

Your comparison of 'danger' of women vs women seems to be unable to acknowledge the power of a weak male vs women.

That is fine. That is your choice.

But you need to own that you either cannot acknowledge that those female inmates have needs that should be considered, or you choose not to.

You are free to call a man who says he is a woman a transwomen but there is no test to prove anything of the sort so the rest of us are using clear language, an adult human male is a man.

If we use your logic then there is no reason why any man who has not been convicted of a violent crime shouldn't be housed in the female prison estate. We know that 99% of sexual offences are committed by men and how they identify doesn't change that. We also can't spot potential sex offenders just by looking at them.

Do you think any man not convicted of a violent crime should be housed in the female prison estate?

Why are you focussing on the demands of male prisoners and not the needs of female prisoners?

You state our courts rely on evidence but then "suggest" a woman in prison on a murder charge is more likely to hurt anther woman. More likely than who? A man? Do you have any evidence for that or are you applying different standards to overcome your own cognitive dissonance?

Don't forget the ''girly' pyjama parties and pillow fights in underwear. All totally normal things that biological women do all the time...

twitter.com/GraceBrodie/status/1619669757531398144 Brilliant.

I suggest that everyone listens to the above interview with Julie Bindall, says it like it is...........