To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

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The longer this is kept in the public eye, the more politicians will know that it's a concern

Men do not belong in spaces for women.

They are female and belong in the female estate.

THIS. This whole ideology falls apart the minute you look at it properly.

The thing is, this point of view centres the single transwoman over and above all the women you’d be locking them up with, many of whom have excellent reasons to not want to be locked up with a male, whatever they’ve been convicted of and however they identify.

Seriously? Staffed by transwomen? On what planet would this work?

If they've had surgery, hormones etc, no.

I think this guy would be a little out of place in a women's prison
pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1144302067940392960/HU1zmE3J_400x400.png

Seriously, how many of those do you think there are? But in answer to your question, they should be in a female prison, in seg if necessary. They are not male even if they have a beard and abandoned head, just as a transwoman wearing lipstick and with breast implants is not female and should therefore be in the male estate.

The transwoman should also be risk assessed using the tools designed to assess men, not women.

A BALD head, not an abandoned one!!!

Seriously? Staffed by transwomen? On what planet would this work

Why not? A trans women wing of a male prison, staffed by other trans women.

YANBU, it's why the government must update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex. There's a petition on this which the government responded to, but responded as if the petition had said something else. The reasons why we need it to get to 100,000 signatures are set out here:

twitter.com/sexmattersorg/status/1618897788624048128?s=46&t=J3CtclSwVHpjISHWsiqf8A

I disagree.
I don’t know the answer is but males should not be in a prison with females- or vice versa.

There are many groups of males that are vulnerable in the male prison estate - young men, gay men, those in gangs, sexual offenders etc. There are risk assessments and mitigations. Though there are so many trans identified men that they perhaps might warrant their own wing, or facility.

As for other countries, many are doing what the UK and Scotland have been doing before this issue got coverage. There are horrendous things happening in prisons in the US.

Every single man in prison would be safer and better off if he were allowed in a women's prison. Men actually assault and murder each other more than they harm women. But, like the entire world has known since forever, men have a physical advantage over women and men commit 99.9% of all sexual crimes against women. No man, no matter how vulnerable he is from other men, should be put in women's sex-separated spaces.

Women prisoners are not the solution to male violence.

IMHO, men created this problem so they should figure it out on their own. But they don't want to, so they fob it off in the women.

@Sarah2891 Buck Angel fully acknowledges being a biological female and supports women's rights and gets a lot of abuse from TRAs.
Of course a woman's prison would be appropriate should it ever be needed.

This!

Are you predicating their inclusion on any kind of physical appearance or just 20 years since declaration?

I don't think you can take genital modification into account as a) it's noone's business so it would be unethical to tell other prisoners that the prisoner in question had their penis inverted, and b) it would discriminate against other men with non-functional genitals. Should a post prostate removal quiet accountant also be in a woman's prison?

I don't think you can take appearance into account as the vast majority of transwomen don't pass, even after 20 years and that would discriminate against "non feminine" transwomen. A feminine transwoman may also have a perfectly adequate "7 inch suprise" (TM Picklebee).

I don't think you can take past behaviour into account. An arrest record is a poor guarantee of past behaviour given the appalling investigation and conviction rate for sexual assault and rape.

Safest and simplest just to keep the transwomen in the male estate with adequate supervision for their safety like other vulnerableale prisoners (and actually it's a leap to assume all trans prisoners are vulnerable as their male victs would testify).

The world of self ID. Mike works Monday to Thursday on the general wing of the male prison and on Fridays identifies as Michelle for her shift on the transwomen’s wing.

Makes more sense than the current state of affairs [shrug]

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1619665344041484289?s=21&t=CkK_J2vIj42RCzo6VvAEQQ

This is a link to an excellent and very clear interview with Julie Bindel about this.

Ive seen so many pictures of buck angel used as a gotcha on fwr that I would absolutely recognise him in a lineup

For those who deny there is an issue with males who are in female prison estates. And who don’t even bother to consider the impact on female prison staff. Maybe this will bring things into perspective.

www.canlii.org/en/on/onwsiat/doc/2022/2022onwsiat1544/2022onwsiat1544.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQALVHJhbnNnZW5kZXIAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=5

Summary:

Female prison officer in female prison told that duty that night was to watch male on suicide watch. The prison officer told her manager she was a child sex abuse survivor and didn’t feel she could do it. The manager said there was no one else and to do it until manager could find replacement. None came.

cSA survivor had to watch male wanking and going to the toilet. Male knew a woman was watching.

Prison officer took employer to tribunal for PTSD and retraumatisation.

It isn’t just about the inmates. it is also about female prison staff EVEN when male is ‘segregated’.

I’d like to agree as an ally but I keep coming back to trans men. It was be insanity for them to be in a mens prison & all people should be safe.

Safest for all would be a separate unit & acceptance this issue is not going away.

What other vulnerable males should women inmates protect?

While understanding that even ‘living as a woman for years’ may mean they have a penis still.

And even if they don’t , do you understand that women have a high likelihood of identifying males, even if they have had their cock inverted into a wound that needs dilation or it heals closed? Because without having their puberty halted very early, males still retain cues. Extreme facial cosmetic surgery where they peel someone’s face off, and shave bones, put in cheek implants, pull down hairline and change the space between nose and top lip may help them to pass. As will shaving the voice box. But hands, feet, and skeletal proportions will remain male. As will gait.

Considering the very high proportion of women in prison who are survivors of male violence of every type, Why should any woman be made to feel unsafe with a male they cannot escape contact with?

Why does any person still think that is appropriate?

Those males can be housed with other vulnerable males in separate area in a male prison.

They will always be male.

Women's prisons should be single sex. Biological women ONLY.

I'm pre-surgery but have been on testosterone for a good while now, and I've wondered about this. As someone who completely understands and backs women not wanting men (or transwomen) in women only spaces, I'd hate the thought of going into a female prison after fully transitioning. I know it could cause distress to those who have gone through SA, DA etc.
At the same time, I can also see that it would cause backlash if transwomen were made to go to men's prisons, but transmen could go to the prison they identify as.
I've read through a lot of the comments on here, and honestly - I wouldn't be averse to being separated, on a different area, either in a male or female prison. That said, not breaking the law is also an option.
I know some people are innocent and wrongly locked up, but for the majority who aren't....maybe they should have thought about this before they broke the law.
Bottom line being, if they don't want to go into a men's prison, then they shouldn't rape women.

Males are excluded from female prison estates because they are male. Regardless of their time and status of transition. Regardless of their crime.

It was never appropriate for males to be in female prison estates.

Males are more powerful on average and even the weakest male will still be stronger than many female prisoners.

Males commit 99% of sex crime. And 1 % of sex crime is even recorded by police in 2021. 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted as an adult (so not including those raped and sexually assaulted in childhood).

Women seem more likely to pick a male’s sex even when they have ‘transitioned’.

Tell us again why any male person should be housed in with females in prison.

Because it seems to me that you have ignored the needs of women here.