Page 22 | To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

NeedToChangeName · 2023-01-29T19:13:33+00:00

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530 Please read this news story And, if you think it's an issue, please keep reading / refreshing the story / sharing it The longer this is kept in the public eye, the more politicians will know that it's a concern

ResisterRex · 03/02/2023 19:30

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 03/02/2023 19:27

Why are references to Young Earth Creationists against Talk Guidelines?

Another implied c-word we can't say?

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 03/02/2023 19:35

The Young Earth Creationists teach kids to say "how do you know, you weren't there" to explanations of evolutionary mechanisms and the origin of our current species.

Is it against the rules to state that?

GailBlancheViola · 03/02/2023 19:35

If I was to say no they shouldn’t I would be going against the equality act.

No, you wouldn't.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 03/02/2023 19:41

The young earth creationists think the only permissible evidence of evolution is personal witness testimony, which cannot be provided because humans don't have a long enough lifespan.

Some people think the only permissible evidence of the impact of mixed-sex prisons on female prisoners is personal witness testimony which cannot be provided because women in prison aren't on mumsnet.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:43

there to make sure everyone regardless of gender

"Gender" isn't a protected characteristic. Sex or gender reassignment. Hope that helps.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:44

I agree. Somebody on Question Time last night said that the person was held in solitary in the womens prison so no women prisoners were at risk. Somebody else said why can't they be held in solitary in a mens prison. Which I think is fair comment I think.

They can't keep people in solitary confinement forever.

ResisterRex · 03/02/2023 20:47

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:44

I agree. Somebody on Question Time last night said that the person was held in solitary in the womens prison so no women prisoners were at risk. Somebody else said why can't they be held in solitary in a mens prison. Which I think is fair comment I think.

They can't keep people in solitary confinement forever.

This position also ignores the rights of the female prison officers. They shouldn't have to search or guard males.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:50

At Swindon Magistrates’ Court today, the 28-year-old admitted breaching the terms of a sexual harm prevention order (SHPO) – which prevents her from owning internet-enabled devices without seeking permission from probation service officers prior – by failing to declare the device for inspection.

Right. So he's already breaking an SHPO to go off the grid on the internet and this utterly foolish and gullible judge thinks he will stick to another one?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:50

This position also ignores the rights of the female prison officers. They shouldn't have to search or guard males.

YY.

ArabellaScott · 03/02/2023 21:26

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:44

I agree. Somebody on Question Time last night said that the person was held in solitary in the womens prison so no women prisoners were at risk. Somebody else said why can't they be held in solitary in a mens prison. Which I think is fair comment I think.

They can't keep people in solitary confinement forever.

72 hours, I believe. Even that is a long time. Actually if anyone wants to talk about 'humanity', how about addressing the fact so many are quite happy to suggest sticking someone in solitary indefinitely?

nilsmousehammer · 03/02/2023 22:25

ResisterRex · 03/02/2023 20:47

This position also ignores the rights of the female prison officers. They shouldn't have to search or guard males.

Show quote history

Or try and contain a male like Scott when he has completely lost it and is violent and extremely dangerous.

11 guards, some if not all in riot gear on at least one occasion in prison. Think of that happening in Cornton Vale with its small contained and overcrowded bungalows with communal areas instead of a landing in a male prison.

nilsmousehammer · 03/02/2023 22:30

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:44

I agree. Somebody on Question Time last night said that the person was held in solitary in the womens prison so no women prisoners were at risk. Somebody else said why can't they be held in solitary in a mens prison. Which I think is fair comment I think.

They can't keep people in solitary confinement forever.

It largely depends on how dangerous they are. Some male prisoners simply are too dangerous to manage any other way.

But if they are in solitary because other men are too dangerous to them?

Or in solitary because they are too dangerous for women?

Query the underlying sexism in the belief that the party endangered should always be the female one rather than have a male human suffering. Better a few wrecked women's lives than an unhappy man, right? Rather sex binary and sex class based thinking isn't it?

The sensible option would be a specialist TQ unit. Where at least some TQ+ prisoners could have free association without being too great a risk to each other.

Clarabell77 · 03/02/2023 22:31

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2023 20:43

there to make sure everyone regardless of gender

"Gender" isn't a protected characteristic. Sex or gender reassignment. Hope that helps.

oh wow that does help 🤣

Fact is, trans people ARE protected under the equality act, and have been for quite a while now.

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 22:35

And so are female people. Under the sex characteristic. For more than a while now.

TomPinch · 03/02/2023 22:44

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 03/02/2023 19:41

The young earth creationists think the only permissible evidence of evolution is personal witness testimony, which cannot be provided because humans don't have a long enough lifespan.

Some people think the only permissible evidence of the impact of mixed-sex prisons on female prisoners is personal witness testimony which cannot be provided because women in prison aren't on mumsnet.

They will also use science (or leastways a particular interpretation of the science) when it suits them, but fundamentally it's a position that proceeds faith, not science.

The idea that gender is somehow innate seems the same to me. I've never heard even a half-decent explanation to the contrary. Quite recently I read an article in Nature that says sex may be more of a continuum or spectrum rather than binary divide, after being told by a friend that it supported gender identity. Fine - but there is nothing in the article about how gender identity would map on to biological sex.

As for Sturgeon. She says Isla Bryson is almost certainly not trans. But according to her own viewpoint it's not her place to say. That's the whole point of gender self-ID. The individual's stated gender identity is apparently just as infallible as the Pope. Sturgeon is being a massive hypocrite.

TomPinch · 03/02/2023 22:46

Clarabell77 · 03/02/2023 22:31

oh wow that does help 🤣

Fact is, trans people ARE protected under the equality act, and have been for quite a while now.

Show quote history

I had heard in the UK that trans people who were undergoing medical interventions or had a GRC did have a protected characteristic. But that wouldn't apply so to someone who simply identified as non-binary and had no plans to take it further. Am I wrong about that?

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 03/02/2023 22:55

TomPinch · 03/02/2023 22:44

They will also use science (or leastways a particular interpretation of the science) when it suits them, but fundamentally it's a position that proceeds faith, not science.

The idea that gender is somehow innate seems the same to me. I've never heard even a half-decent explanation to the contrary. Quite recently I read an article in Nature that says sex may be more of a continuum or spectrum rather than binary divide, after being told by a friend that it supported gender identity. Fine - but there is nothing in the article about how gender identity would map on to biological sex.

As for Sturgeon. She says Isla Bryson is almost certainly not trans. But according to her own viewpoint it's not her place to say. That's the whole point of gender self-ID. The individual's stated gender identity is apparently just as infallible as the Pope. Sturgeon is being a massive hypocrite.

Show quote history

Was it the article in Nature by Claire Ainsworth? She clarified!

To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

TomPinch · 03/02/2023 22:58

Yes - it's here.

TomPinch · 03/02/2023 23:02

Just to add that if anything it would (if true) demolish the whole notion of being transgender in the sense that one can be biologically one side of a binary divide but feel like you're on the other, ie, trans.

ReneBumsWombats · 03/02/2023 23:31

Is he back? Has he told us yet why Myra Hindley belonged in a female prison but Isla Bryson doesn't?

He really doesn't like women who talk back at him, does he?

Happylittlechicken · 03/02/2023 23:37

@ReneBumsWombats no he does not.

ReneBumsWombats · 04/02/2023 07:51

Let's see...blah blah screeching (TM), blah blah I'm right really, blah blah no answer to the question...oh, and the old "trans rights are under the Equality Act already and pray to God nobody realises that it covers trans people with a GRC, not any old bloke who just says he feels like a woman and indeed that's actually the heart of the entire issue" thing. Kind of funny how quickly that one got slapped down.

Common garden species. I wish we could get a little variety round here. It's like Groundhog Day.

Happylittlechicken · 04/02/2023 07:53

I miss the old poppers in who actually made an effort. Now they just reiterate the same old gubbins. I’m even starting to miss clownfish….

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 04/02/2023 08:26

It is in the Feminism section Thread is called….

BBC apologise after gamer accuses Harry Potter author JK Rowling of transphobia

nilsmousehammer · 04/02/2023 08:51

Happylittlechicken · 04/02/2023 07:53

I miss the old poppers in who actually made an effort. Now they just reiterate the same old gubbins. I’m even starting to miss clownfish….

I know what you mean. It's not even good bullshit.

But it's enlightening to read the threads and see who has a case and who doesn't and is just here to try and stop women stating reality and setting boundaries for themselves. Because men don't like it.