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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

552 replies

NeedToChangeName · 29/01/2023 19:13

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

Please read this news story

And, if you think it's an issue, please keep reading / refreshing the story / sharing it

The longer this is kept in the public eye, the more politicians will know that it's a concern

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
GoGosr · 29/01/2023 19:48

Even if a man hasn't committed a sex crime (or been caught / convicted) for that you think it would be safe to put an intact male in a locked facility with hundreds of women and not expect him to try it on with any of them??!

Even consensual relationships... Are women supposed to be offered contraception in prison now? Abortions? Because these women with penises are allowed in there?

Tinkerbyebye · 29/01/2023 19:49

I would agree only if they have fully transitioned ie had gender reassignment operation

Otherwise they are men

EldersOfTheInternet · 29/01/2023 19:49

HermioneWeasley · 29/01/2023 19:28

No males in women’s prisons. Not even really nice ones, or ones convicted of driving offences.

Absolutely agree, I can see men with no prior convictions for violence/abuse trying to get their way into a women's prison even instigating a conviction.
@RumandSpinach
Just because someone has no prior convictions doesn't mean they haven't done anything or are capable of it.
1% of reported rapes end with a conviction, that's without the ones on adults that aren't reported or feck knows how many unreported on children. Thats just sexual abuse let alone violence, stalking etc.

dapsnotplimsolls · 29/01/2023 19:50

gogohmm · 29/01/2023 19:47

A fully transitioned person who has lived their chosen gender prior to committing the crime which is not of a sexual nature should be treated as their chosen gender. This is simply not the same as someone identifying as the opposite gender after committing a crime

Good luck finding one of those.

Vebrithien · 29/01/2023 19:51

Gender does not trump biology.

No mammal has EVER changed sex.

No man, trans identifying or other, has ever had to fear becoming pregnant.

No man, trans identifying or other has ever had to deal with the physicality of a period.

Men and women should be able to live their lives, with respect and dignity.

No person should ever be expected to drink a cup of tea, if they don't want it.

No person should be forced to lie, and without their consent, affirm the beliefs of others, often to their own detriment.

PugInTheHouse · 29/01/2023 19:51

gogohmm · 29/01/2023 19:47

A fully transitioned person who has lived their chosen gender prior to committing the crime which is not of a sexual nature should be treated as their chosen gender. This is simply not the same as someone identifying as the opposite gender after committing a crime

Please can you define what you mean by fully transitioned?

Hollygrows · 29/01/2023 19:53

Yanbu, it's fucking bonkers. Single sex places, should remain as such.

The merging and blurring of sex and gender is depressing in a lot of ways.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 29/01/2023 19:53

gogohmm · 29/01/2023 19:47

A fully transitioned person who has lived their chosen gender prior to committing the crime which is not of a sexual nature should be treated as their chosen gender. This is simply not the same as someone identifying as the opposite gender after committing a crime

For how long will they have to have 'lived in their chosen gender'? One day? Ten years? And how do they live 'in their chosen gender'? Does that involve genital surgery?

WomanWomenGirlsFemale · 29/01/2023 19:54

We all know humans can't change sex so even if a man chops off his dick and balls and takes hormone tablets HE IS STILL A MAN and does NOT belong in female sex segregated space. So sick of this shit.

ThreeLittleDots · 29/01/2023 19:54

Even if they don't have a penis, they are still not women.

They perhaps belong on a specialist trans women wing of a prison staffed only by men

Agree, except perhaps should be staffed by trans women.

glitterfarts · 29/01/2023 19:58

Men who don't identify as anything; men who identify as men; men who identify as women; men who identify as non binary. Are all men. And belong in males space, not female space.

Who cares what clothes they like to wear, what make up or hairstyles. Y chromosome = male.
End of.

GailBlancheViola · 29/01/2023 19:58

gogohmm · 29/01/2023 19:47

A fully transitioned person who has lived their chosen gender prior to committing the crime which is not of a sexual nature should be treated as their chosen gender. This is simply not the same as someone identifying as the opposite gender after committing a crime

No, they should be accommodate appropriately within the prison estate for their sex.

There are many vulnerable male prisoners they are accommodated within the male prison estate.

Women are not human shields or collateral damage for men who are unhappy with the sex they were born, nor should women anywhere be used to validate any man's belief that he is a woman.

moogdroog · 29/01/2023 19:59

YANBU

No men in women's prisons. None. Whatever the crime, whatever they've done to their hormones or dangly bits.

Thank goodness this is finally getting sunlight. It's a shameful betrayal of very vulnerable women.

piggypoole · 29/01/2023 20:00

WomanWomenGirlsFemale · 29/01/2023 19:54

We all know humans can't change sex so even if a man chops off his dick and balls and takes hormone tablets HE IS STILL A MAN and does NOT belong in female sex segregated space. So sick of this shit.

Totally agree . Also should be made law to tell future partners of transition.

TeamHerbivore · 29/01/2023 20:02

Of course men don’t belong in women’s prisons. It’s ridiculous that we even have to talk about this.

Soontobe60 · 29/01/2023 20:02

RumandSpinach · 29/01/2023 19:30

I know on MN many won't agree, but I do think there are times when a women's prison would be more appropriate.

If a transwoman has been living as a woman for years, had no prior criminal history and is going to do time for fraud I can see why they would go to a women's prison.

The two high profile recent decisions however are batshit and demonstrate a complete lack of risk assessment.

There are many men in men’s prisons that fit your description - should they also be sent to the women’s prison estate?
Conversely, should women who have been convicted of a violent crime be sent to the mens estate?

GailBlancheViola · 29/01/2023 20:05

What is living in their chosen gender anyway? What are the criteria for that?

No man can live as a woman because no man is or ever will be a woman, the most they are doing is living as what their male view of a woman is.

Women are not a feeling, fantasy or idea in a man's head, it is time to stop this arrant nonsense.

user12345678213 · 29/01/2023 20:06

moogdroog · 29/01/2023 19:59

YANBU

No men in women's prisons. None. Whatever the crime, whatever they've done to their hormones or dangly bits.

Thank goodness this is finally getting sunlight. It's a shameful betrayal of very vulnerable women.

Where would you put them and what do you think would happen to a surgically transitioned "man" in a male prison?

Equally a genuine trans "man" would be subject to attack etc in a womens prison too.

I don't know what the humane answer is, what do other countries do?

BTW i'm not talking about these recent cases were male sexual offenders are using the trans issue for a softer sentence or whatever, they should be put back in the male prison estate.

ThreeLittleDots · 29/01/2023 20:06

What about a trans man in a woman's prison?

Biologically female, but has been on testosterone for 30 years = beard, bald, deep voice, muscular, committed violent crime

Soontobe60 · 29/01/2023 20:06

gogohmm · 29/01/2023 19:47

A fully transitioned person who has lived their chosen gender prior to committing the crime which is not of a sexual nature should be treated as their chosen gender. This is simply not the same as someone identifying as the opposite gender after committing a crime

Yes, you’re right. It’s not the same as committing a violent / sex crime.
But they’re still male. Ergo, they belong in the male estate.

Sarahcoggles · 29/01/2023 20:07

gogohmm · 29/01/2023 19:47

A fully transitioned person who has lived their chosen gender prior to committing the crime which is not of a sexual nature should be treated as their chosen gender. This is simply not the same as someone identifying as the opposite gender after committing a crime

You can't choose a gender, any more than you can choose a height.

Hollygrows · 29/01/2023 20:07

GailBlancheViola · 29/01/2023 20:05

What is living in their chosen gender anyway? What are the criteria for that?

No man can live as a woman because no man is or ever will be a woman, the most they are doing is living as what their male view of a woman is.

Women are not a feeling, fantasy or idea in a man's head, it is time to stop this arrant nonsense.

Quite. A lot of this "living as a woman" seems to boil down to some sexist stereotypes. Dresses and lipstick basically.

Mariposa26 · 29/01/2023 20:07

Nobody with a penis should be sharing spaces with vulnerable women who they could forcibly impregnate. Especially not a double rapist.

Soontobe60 · 29/01/2023 20:08

ThreeLittleDots · 29/01/2023 20:06

What about a trans man in a woman's prison?

Biologically female, but has been on testosterone for 30 years = beard, bald, deep voice, muscular, committed violent crime

I’d bet a lot of money on them NOT wanting to be placed with men!

LaLuz7 · 29/01/2023 20:08

HasAnyoneSeenMySlippers · 29/01/2023 19:25

Trans women are not women and don’t belong in any spaces made for biological women. This includes women’s prisons.

Bingo. How anyone can question this is beyond me.