Why do people keep voting the tortes in again and again

[Thomasina79]

Not wanting an argument, just wondering. Another Tory has been dismissed for dishonesty and day after day we hear of stories about people having to choose between heating and eating. Surely people realise we need a change of government? The NHS and other support services such as teachers are on strike. What next?

Blossomtoes

Although why we’re arguing about credit card bills three governments ago I really don’t know

2015 was fairly recent - Boris Johnson was scrutinised as far back as 1995.

The Tories, in their current guise, are complete garbage and the equal worst government I have lived under.

However. I am not voting for a party that will increase welfare for all, home and abroad. I already feel the vast majority of those around me live off my taxes and I resent it/them. I'm also not voting for a party that will further push Woke Culture.

So unless there is a credible alternative to the garbage Tories, I will vote who ever isn't left wing AND will keep out Labour.

I will vote who ever isn't left wing AND will keep out Labour.

Is the unicorn party standing in your constituency?

If Labour concentrated on the things people cared about and dropped all the identity politics stuff that is a major turn-off to mainstream voters, they would win a lot more elections. As it is, the Conservatives are the default party of government, and Labour are the alternative who get in when enough people have had enough of the Tories. Then a couple of elections down the line the Tories win again.

I think you might have nailed it @Florenz. Labour has lots of activist members who want big changes on small points, while mainstream voters care about everyday pragmatic social functioning, preferably without a huge cost to their tax bills. And most of the time, the Tories look past those issues and concentrate on the cost of catering to most of the people, most of the time. But at the next GE, I think the Tories are facing a bloodbath, because I believe they have got the balance epically wrong. However, because I am old and deeply cynical, I fully expect to be back here in five years time, still arguing the toss and tossing around the statistics. I just flipping hope that we will have reached a pragmatic accommodation with Europe.

What's "identity politics"?

Well said F - "However. I am not voting for a party that will increase welfare for all, home and abroad. I already feel the vast majority of those around me live off my taxes and I resent it/them. I'm also not voting for a party that will further push Woke Culture"

This post above is what Labour is up against. They just cannot seem to win the trust of the strivers who want to pay less tax and feel their tax money is better spent. The "pound in their pocket" is usually why a lot of voters vote one way or the other.

I think that’s broadly right @Xenia. The thing is that there are a fair few people like me who could easily afford to pay more tax and would happily do so to have public services that function properly and not have hundreds of thousands of kids living in poverty. So, yes, it’s definitely about the pound in my pocket - I want a government that will take more of my pounds and spend them wisely.

I am clutching my pearls in disbelief. Blossomtoes and Xenia in agreement on anything is a first! But I agree with you both. Happy to pay my tax, even a bit more tax, but spend it well.

This, I would happily pay more if it was ring fenced for public services. I am a bit more hardline that if you don't work in order to get benefits their should be a mandatory work component after X months. I would go as a far as a contraceptive requirement after Y months of continuous claim of out of work benefits. I also find it interesting that we have friends who have arrived here as immigrants and have jobs within days, yet we have long term unemployed brits!

Last time it was the dynamite combination of Jeremy Corbyn + a government promising to end the very dishonest prevarication over Brexit which was only serving to divide and destabilize.

Usually it's Labour that throws away elections by incompetence, warmongering, treason and worse rather than the tories or lib dems winning

The post above is the UK the Conservatives have delivered. A weakened, unstable, uninvestable, unwell country with a divided, demoralised, resentful population.

This, I would happily pay more if it was ring fenced for public services.

grumpybutfunny you can more tax - here is a quote from The Guardian:

SSusan
Reynolds pay more tax (Letters, 28 September) says: “I want to pay more tax for the public services I enjoy.” She might be relieved to know that she may do so simply by sending a cheque to HMRC. I understand that you can even specify where you would like to see that money spent. Interestingly, the government releases those figures on an annual basis, and it appears that 15 people have done so in the last two years.

Grumpy & blossom - are you going to pay more tax now you know it’s possible?

Ha! I like this answer.

Grumpy & blossom - are you going to pay more tax now you know it is possible?

Why would anyone give this corrupt, incompetent government anymore money than they had to?🤯

"Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal is the primary factor in the crisis of small boat crossings in the English Channel, a new study has found.

The decision to leave the EU without a returns agreement in place has led to the “skyrocketing” number of dangerous crossings, according to a Durham University report.

Under a mechanism known as the Dublin Convention, the British government could previously ask fellow EU nations to take people back if they had passed through safe countries en route to the UK."

“The government used to have a deal on returning migrants, but it ended with Brexit and no alternative was agreed,” said study author Professor Thom Brooks. “This made it far more difficult to return any new arrivals, and numbers have skyrocketed after this deal stopped.”

Grumpy & blossom - are you going to pay more tax now you know it’s possible?

My caveat was that it was spent wisely. I’m definitely not paying more tax to a Tory government so it can give it to its mates.

"World-beating"

Didn't they promise us cheaper energy after Brexit?

Agree completely. But a recent massive poll sample suggests Labour will win a landslide. So they'll think -- ' oh great normal service is resumed. PR meh who needs it'.

And so it the defective system lurches on. It's interesting that Westminster approved various forms of PR for Scotland and Ireland . Wales too?

Can't have small groups of extremist nutbags seizing complete control eh lads? But it's alright in London....

@Abhannmor , the polls can be misleading, and may have been conducted to give a false impression. Many tory voters will not be willing to vote labour.

And so it the defective system lurches on. It's interesting that Westminster approved various forms of PR for Scotland and Ireland . Wales too?

The three electoral systems used for elections in Wales are: first-past-the-post (for UK elections and local elections, though individual local authorities are able to move to STV under recent Welsh legislation), the additional member system (for Senedd elections) and the supplementary vote (for Police and Crime Commissioner elections; although proposals by the UK Government to change PCC elections to FPTP have been made).
Elections in Wales

Welsh Labour has been in power over 20 years - in charge of education and NHS - nether is doing well.

Current new headline item from Welsh government:

LGBTQ: Aim to make it easier to change gender in Wales

Making it simpler for someone to legally change their gender is part of new proposals being unveiled by the Welsh government.
It comes after the UK government said it would block similar legislation put forward by the Scottish government.
The Welsh government called the new LGBTQ+ Action Plan for Wales an "ambitious plan with hope".
Critics of the proposals say it could "trample over women's rights".

I suspect Tory government in Westminster will go next election but I'm less convinced Labour will get a landslide currently predicted by polls.

No they won’t. They’ll either not vote at all or spoil their papers. My lifelong Tory husband is already debating which path to take. The one thing he’s absolutely clear about is that it’s time they had some time in opposition.

@Blossomtoes , I think they usually vote LibDem or for an independent.
The constituency where I live usually only has a choice of Labour or Conservative.

I don't think the Tories will even be His Majesty's Opposition party after the next General Election. I think they'll just be one of a cluster of small far right parties outdoing each other to promise to bring back hanging, Imperial measures and national service.

Even when they do a good thing they do a bad thing.

The 75 Family Hubs that will replace a tiny fraction of the 2300 Labour Sure Start Centres the Tories closed are actually Family Hubs Limited owned by long time Tory donor Lord Farmer.

I wonder how many more could have be opened if they weren't being run for profit?