Breast feeding in baby change room

[CreativeCreature]

Today, our local supermarket has one baby change room. DD desperately needed changing before it became a whole outfit change. Lady was in there 45mins breast feeding, I had to use disabled toilet & change DD. AIBU to think she was selfish?

I knocked on more to check she was okay, she came to the door shouting she’d only just started feeding her baby & slammed the door. She was then in there for another 30 mins. So a total of 45 mins.

That sounds similar to what I saw.
I think there should be similar set ups everywhere.
Large shopping centres included. In a smaller scale obviously but it was so refreshing to see.

I had to use a disabled toilet to change my sons bum because the other toilet didn't have a changing table.

I've never minded feeding and someone coming in and changing their baby. When DD was abjt older if someone came in with a smaller baby I'd stand and feed so they could sit down.

Not being selfish at all.

@Emmamoo89 And you’ve since complained to the store/business, right? You’ve started a campaign because you realise that it’s not ok to just use facilities that aren’t for you? You’ve recognised that the way to get the facilities you need is campaigning, (like disabled people did for decades, only to find that now they have them they’re back to square one because mums keep nicking them)? Right?

Disabled toilets are often also the changing space for babies. The equality act states that provision must be provided but not that it is sole use.
If it was illegal then pretty much most places in the UK would be breaking the law and wouldn't receive planning permission in the first place.

It's clearly a cause close to you but having a go at parents because they are using either a baby change in the designated area or in the rare example of the OP who had to briefly change a baby on the floor.

@Scottishskifun It doesn’t need to say that they have to be provided for that sole use because that’s inherent in the concept of being provided. If you provide a disabled toilet but then say “oh it can also be used by a mum if she wants to spend an hour in there changing her baby and reading a book”, then you’re no longer providing a disabled toilet. You’re providing a toilet that can be used by disabled people as long as there’s not a mum in there. That’s not what the Eq Act sets out.

I don’t know why so many shops do this (I suspect it’s not made clear in planning applications that they intend to discharge their obligation to provide disabled access by providing a multi-purpose space). But I really hope that one of them gets sued. It’s the only way that these facilities are going to be left for the people who they’re for and not used as conveniences by everyone else.

What do you suggest, places pull baby changing tables out of disabled toilets? as you say, they are accessible toilets for anyone who needs to use them as they cannot access a toilet. What’s your definition for “disabled”?

What do you suggest, places pull baby changing tables out of disabled toilets?

Yes, I’d absolutely suggest that. If that then creates a problem for mums, they can campaign to sort that problem out.

as you say, they are accessible toilets for anyone who needs to use them as they cannot access a toilet.

At this point you are wilfully misunderstanding me, as I have never said that. They are accessible for anyone who, by reason of a disability, cannot access a standard toilet. Not anyone who can’t fit their pram into a cubicle. That’s not a bloody disability.

What’s your definition for “disabled”?

There’s one in section 5 of the Equality Act - suggest you go and read that.

She was selfish, the purpose of the
changing room was to change babies. I’m sure you could have done it elsewhere but it’s not super hygienic to be changing a baby in eg a cafe. Especially a slightly older one.

she should have found a quiet corner to bf or if she really felt uncomfortable being seen then sat in her car.

What the actual hell? So you want to take provision away from babies? I’m guessing you don’t have kids yourself, because no parent actively wants to make the lives of others more difficult. You are also making a sexist assumption that a mother would be the one to change the nappy, but whatever. In the meantime, what do parents of babies who are covered in excrement do? A parent using a baby change table for a short period of time (it takes less than 5 minutes to change a baby) does not cause any more of an issue than another disabled person using the toilet.

Some people are not disabled, but also cannot access the toilet. For example, someone who is overweight can not make use of a normal cubicle. Someone who has continence issues. Someone who has recently had surgery. Someone who has anxiety about public spaces/toilets. Should they be banned too?

Section 5 is about age discrimination. Not sure what you are talking about?

Why aren't parents bothering to campaign for better facilities instead of using facilities for disabled people?

What the actual hell? So you want to take provision away from babies?

No, because the provision isn’t for babies. I want parents to campaign for provision for babies.

In the meantime, what do parents of babies who are covered in excrement do?

Maybe ask those who campaigned for those facilities for two decades what they did in the meantime.

A parent using a baby change table for a short period of time (it takes less than 5 minutes to change a baby) does not cause any more of an issue than another disabled person using the toilet.

Another disabled person using it and causing a wait is unfortunate but no more than that. A person who shouldn’t be in there causing a wait goes against the purpose of these facilities being provided - accessibility for disabled people (not prams).

Some people are not disabled, but also cannot access the toilet. For example, someone who is overweight can not make use of a normal cubicle. Someone who has continence issues. Someone who has recently had surgery. Someone who has anxiety about public spaces/toilets. Should they be banned too?

Those issues could actually meet the definition of disability under section 6 of the Eq Act. That’s why the language changed to accessible - because there are people with hidden disabilities that need access to those facilities. So no, they should not be banned. Having a pram or a baby is not a disability.

Section 5 is about age discrimination. Not sure what you are talking about?

Very sorry - I meant section 6.

Their situation is temporary and it’s easier just to nick what’s already there and claim it’s for them.

So the baby changing table isn’t for babies? Given the maximum weight is 18kg, I doubt it’s for adults - who is it for? Was I okay to take my (older) daughter in there after she shat herself due to an allergic reaction? Where do you draw the line?

It would be impossible for me to change my tampon in a standard cubicle while holding a child. Again, I’m guessing you don’t have much experience of actually holding an infant, and perhaps you haven’t been in a non adapted toilet recently to witness how tight the space actually is - but I’m below average clothes size and I can’t do a pee without my leg touching the sanitary waste bin. Which is fine when it’s just me, or fine when it’s just me and my daughter who can walk. But when it’s me and my baby, to do a pee with him on my knee would mean that his head or legs would be on the waste bin. Not very dignified is it?
You also mentioned that you could hold a baby whilst changing a tampon - again, logistically how is that going to work? If I hold baby under my right arm, use my left arm to pull out old tampon, then to wrap it up I need to use both hands - one of which I’m holding my baby with. Then, I need to inset the new tampon, and I’d need to use my left hand - which has touched my own vagina and carried a blood soaked tampon mind - to open the cubicle door and operate the tap. Not very hygienic is it? Do you honestly want people to do this?

Im not sure why you want others to struggle just because you did. Parents campaigned for parent and child spaces, disabled people quite rightly use them if there is no disabled spaces available, yet disabled people now apparently don’t want parents with children to use the only safe space to change their child?

@WineDup Your entire comment essentially boils down to “this is inconvenient for me so I think I should be allowed to use a facility that’s not for me”. You shouldn’t. It’s that simple. Campaign for your own shit.

(I didn’t say anything about tampons, either, that was someone else.)

I don’t use disabled toilets myself - I am disabled but not in such a way that entitles me to use them. I’m very familiar with the difficulties of using a standard toilet but that does not entitle me to use a disabled one.

Parents campaigned for parent and child spaces, disabled people quite rightly use them if there is no disabled spaces available, yet disabled people now apparently don’t want parents with children to use the only safe space to change their child?

There is no legal requirement for baby change or P&C spaces, they’re a convenience provided by businesses if they want to provide it. The reason that disabled people can use P&C spaces is not because parents have been kind enough to share (and deserve something back), it’s because these spaces have no enforceable designation. They can be used by anyone at any time. It’s also why not every business has these spaces - they’re not required.

There is a legal requirement for disabled facilities. Disabled people do not have to “share” them with parents. They are theirs and theirs alone. If parents want a legally enforceable designated space, then it’s up to them to campaign. Not to whinge that they share their spaces so it’s not fair.

It was me who initially mentioned tampons - you suggested that parents could use the toilet while holding a child - I’m really curious as to how you think this would be possible? Again, it’s abundantly clear that you do not have your own children as you are unable to understand how that would be difficult/impossible.

Disabled toilets do not have to be exclusively for use by disabled people. Many places ONLY offer a disabled toilet, for example. Should I just shit myself next time there is no other toilets?

And actually, you can be fined for using parent and child spaces if you do not have a child under the age of 12 who is travelling in a car seat. They are rarely enforced (similar to disabled spaces in supermarkets and other private car parks) but they are enforceable.

I can’t believe someone would be cruel enough to say that a baby should have to stay in a shit filled nappy until they get home, or be changed on a bathroom floor, because disabled people don’t want to wait 5 minutes.

"I can’t believe someone would be cruel enough to say that a baby should have to stay in a shit filled nappy until they get home, or be changed on a bathroom floor, because disabled people don’t want to wait 5 minutes."

Because some of us can't wait?

The fact is that the shops make the accessible toilet baby changing facilities. They are marked on the door and there is a changing table in there. Would separate facilities be better for all involved? Absolute. But you can’t blame parents for using the assigned facilities for what they are assigned for.

@WineDup I’m literally done arguing with you, it’s like talking to a wall. I have no interest in working out how to make it possible for you to have a baby in a cubicle, that’s for you to sort out. It’s not “cruel”, it’s the law. If you don’t like it, go and campaign to get it changed.

PS The enforcement of P&C spaces is a parking charge notice, which has no legal basis (compared to a penalty charge notice, which does).

But you can’t blame parents for using the assigned facilities for what they are assigned for.

No, I absolutely can and I do. Not as much as I blame the stores for making parents think they can override the legal entitlements won by disabled people, but I absolutely judge the parents who are going along with it.

It’s a lot more energy absorbing to judge than it is to be supportive. You don’t sound like you have the first idea about being about and about with babies so maybe spend less time focussing negatively on something you don’t understand.

Actually the law is to provide equal access to toilet facilities. It doesn’t require exclusive use.

I have worked out how to use the toilet. I use the disabled toilet. It’s never once been an issue - thankfully it’s a rare occurrence, I avoid public toilets unless it’s urgent - but if me using a disabled toilet to change my child on a designated baby change table once in a blue moon is really bothering you so much, then maybe it’s you who needs to campaign to bring back radar keys or something.

Imagine being so bitter you want babies to be uncomfortable 😂

I know right?! We change our babies to keep them clean and comfortable. This poster is carrying on like it’s for fun!