Asked to be guarantor for DS who wont save - WWYD?

[wonderingannie]

I just need some perspective hear - I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or not

DS 20 in the 1st year of university started late due to covid so had a good 15 months off before, after much persuading and pushing, helping write CVs and application form etc finally got a job for around 6 months before which he saved half his wage (gave this to me to bank), to keep for when he started uni (I will add I never charged any board). He only gets the minimum loan which just covers costs of halls. Has been there for 5 months and has barely applied for any jobs, money is running out and I'm worrying! any spare money he got for xmas has been spent on games, clothes, trainers etc. Money just burns a hole in his pocket and if I hadn't pushed him to get a job pre uni he would literally not have a penny to his name right now.

He now needs to secure accommodation for next year and his loan no where near covers the cost of this, he has just this week secured a job (hooray), I'm really pleased but he is point blank refusing to send me part of his wages to save towards the astronomical rent next year (he says its embarrassing? I'm not sure who would know or why saving to ensure you can pay your rent is embarrassing). Yet he is expecting me to sign as a guarantor for this rent which if he defaults on I just cannot afford to pay. He has since said if I don't sign he will have to drop out!

He will be earning more than double what I send him weekly now (out of his savings), so saving a portion of it will still see him much better off than he is at the moment whilst ensuring his rent will get paid. He tells me he will save it but I just don't believe he has the will power to do so speaking from experience!

we are kind of at a stalemate at the moment and both likely feeling a bit blackmailed by the other

YANBU - I should trust that he will save it and sign as guarantor?

YABU - I should not sign until he agrees to send me a portion of his salary to save for rent. If he refuses let him quit.

Stackss · Today 13:23

Unfortunately you miss my point entirely.
The op said that her DS was financially irresponsible
any spare money he got for xmas has been spent on games, clothes, trainers etc. Money just burns a hole in his pocket and if I hadn't pushed him to get a job pre uni he would literally not have a penny to his name right now.
Therefore to be a guarantor is very risky unless the op can afford to pay the rent ..as he is very likely to default.
I am sure the op would be a guarantor should she be able to afford the risk.

I am not ignorant, but you are very rude to say so. I am aware of how the system works, but disagree that parents who cannot afford to pay rent in the case of a default should guarantee an irresponsible DC.

Spending his christmas money on himself does not make him irresponsible.

What is irresponsible about spending money given to you for Christmas on things for yourself. Isn't that what Christmas money is for? OP's household income must be over 70K so she won't go bankrupt if her DS defaults. Even if she hasn't got savings she will be up to get a loan. Most parents on that income pay the majority of their student children's accommodation in the first place.

When dd, due to covid asked to do a year's postgrad due to not being industry ready I did indeed take out a loan to cover her living costs.

How is he “likely to default on the rent” when he’s been paying the rent from his own money and hasn’t defaulted yet? Frankly he is more responsible than the OP as he is paying what the OP should be paying towards his Uni costs.

Quite, especially since a good portion went on clothes and trainers, seems OP doesn’t even clothe or shoe her DC.

So my mum and I at uni got a joint account- I had no access to it (before the days of current Internet banking and I was denied to see this account)- and we put money in there just for rent- and rent went out this account... it was so mum could see and not panic that there wasn't any money for rent.
For reference this was in the 2000s- I got less loan than rent- loan was about £3500 per year and we managed (literally if my parents had earned £20 less a month and I didn't have 2 other siblings at university I would have been better off financially).... get a joint account for rent- mum and I still have ours 14 years later where money changes hand for children, toys, anything she buys off my amazon account etc...

I don’t think you are unreasonable if you cannot afford to pay if he defaults. He is 20 and he needs to know he is responsible.
The reality for me was I went to a uni close by and lived at home because my parents wouldn’t have been able to support my accommodation costs. That was 20 years ago the cost of this stuff has gone up so much over that time. quite surprised that the majority think yabu to be honest!

@Pinkchilli

The OP clearly has a decent household income for the DS to be in a position where he’s only entitled to minimum loan.

She needs to be looking at how she can cut costs elsewhere to provide the support to her DS as she is expected to rather than blaming him for girls situation.

*the situation

Don’t think I can give this an opinion as AIBU. It’s much more layered and a hard one.
Totally get where your coming from, finances are tight and going to stay lean.
Most parents act as guarantors, sounds like it’s the money managing that’s the thorn.
Can you sit down together and draft up a plan? Separate accounts, set weekly shops, preordered online. Techniques for going out and keep costs low. All funds loans/wages go into a main account, his name, no card but access to balance and standing orders.Then set up the bill standing orders.The only thing to leave this account are bills via standing order. Then have a spend account that tops up via standing order weekly. Weekly helps make the money easier to manage. Can have an emergency stash , eg top up card or cash sum and always have some baked beans type snacks in the cupboard and pizzas in the freezer.

Could this be great opportunity for your son to learn these life skill and grow in experience, understanding and confidence?

Realistically it’s a learning curve that will take some practice, conversations, occasional blips but it is doable.
It’s a part of growing up.

This is so accurate! There is an expectation you should be paying toward his maintenance. The fact he is funding himself is really good. Your income is why he gets a low maintenance.

You should be paying towards his maintenance. You are the reason he gets such a low loan so you need to contribute. You may not think it’s fair but that’s how his loan will have been calculated, with the expectation you’ll be helping him.

Yet another financially incompetent and irresponsible parent managing to reframe it as 'my child can't budget'.

Her income is why he gets a small maintenance loan. It’s on her to top it up, maybe look up how much you need to make for your child to get the lowest loan. It’s around £65,000 a year. The fact he’s supporting himself with savings currently is great!

My parents weren't able to afford the supposed parental contribution in the 1990s as the grant calculation didn't take into account most of their outgoings. They just didn't have the spare money that the government thought they ought to have. However they gave me money when they could and I always had a job, at least in the main holidays.

Of course calculations do not take into account outgoings as these are a choice. Parents choose what house to buy or rent and have plenty of time to plan ahead. They know when their child turns 18 so know they may go to university then.

My parents were never high earners and if I'd gone to university a few years earlier the grant would have covered a lot more. Bloody grateful to have one though and not come out with a ton of debt.

I'm just making the point that what the government thinks people can afford is often fairly disconnected from reality.

People can budget accordingly. Unlike op, who seems to think her son can't budget but who appears unable to do so herself

I think YABU

If his student loan isn’t sufficient to cover his expenses it is likely that the student loans company have calculated that you should be contributing to his costs.

That’s how it worked when I went to university anyway. when I made my application it told me the loan would be X amount of money and my parents were expected to sub a X amount of money.

Unfortunately for me, my parents weren’t willing to pay the amount the SLC calculated that they should (fair enough although I was mad at the time).

I never had a job throughout the majority of time at university (I did a small amount of agency work, maybe 1 shift a week in my final year) and certainly never had any savings to help me through.

The only saving grace of it all was that I was very good at budgeting and managed to shop extremely savvy (going to the shops late at night and buying short dated things and cooking in batch, then freezing it).

Although many choose to get a job during university I certainly wouldn’t say it’s an obligation (especially if he is studying full time). I did ok in my grades having not had a job for the majority of my time, but I certainly think if I had it would’ve negatively affected my grades and I may not have passed.

That doesn’t mean that you have to be prepared to bail him out of everything falls through.

Its down to you to decide if you’re happy to help him out or not (although his loan amount is likely due to your income).

At the end of the day, being his guarantor is your choice, but if he defaults you wouldn’t have to pay indefinitely. If you help him out for a month or two and he can’t get on top of his finances, you do have to option to tell his landlord to end his contract if that’s what you want to do.

We're too soft with our kids. I agreed to standd guarantor for a new van for my son, then had to remortgage my house when he wrote the van off without having bothered to insure it.
If he has to drop out he can always go back next year or the year after.

I think a lot of people are clueless re student loan system. It’s so wrong they all can’t borrow the same amount and pay back when working same as tuition fees. The parental contribution is potentially £5000 a year. That’s a big amount to find out of net pay especially if more than
one child. It’s a world away from buying them a bit of shopping territory.

You need to have a frank conversation op. If you can’t afford your contribution he needs to know.
Are there cheaper options - shared bathroom not en-suite etc. Older students used to be in halls as a sort of block monitor for cheaper rent.

The risk of non-payment for goods or services is something a business should bear itself. It is not his fault that Landlords are permitted to demand this, and it has only become normalised to do so fairly recently, pretty much since detailed affordability tests were applied to mortgage applicants and estate agents realised proof of income was a service they could flog landlords too via their lettings management business.

I chose to twice act as a guarantor for a friend on London flat rentals - he could afford the rent, but was self-employed without the track record of income to meet the financial tests. His Dad died when he was a child and his Mum is disabled and on benefits. He didn't have family with the financial ability to support him - something I have always had.

He didn't ask, I offered. Without my help, he would have been forced to take a room in an HMO, which is fine in your 20s but a fairly horrendous prospect for many of us in later. All I had to do was authorise my accountant to supply details and sign a piece of paper at my risk. He never defaulted on the rent and gave me an incredible present it took him about 12 hours to make (he's a craftsman) to say thanks. A couple of years on, he had proof of income and a fiance with the same and no longer needed help. It was a temporary issue, much as your son won't be a student forever.

It says something if I will do this voluntarily for a friend, whilst you want to decline it to your own child. I'm not sure what it says though.

Maybe I'm a mug & a soft touch, or maybe I did a good thing and will have my reward in karma.

Maybe the OP is a miserly control freak who raised a son she distrusts and doesn't respect, or maybe she is giving him a valuable life lesson in financial responsibility.

Probably a matter of perspective. Maybe it is all true.

I think she has already told him. I'm not sure she phrased it as 'I have frittered my money away on Christmas, clothes and trainers' and 'I haven't budgeted for the entirely predictable £5k a year parental contribution' it's more of a 'you are wasting your money on clothes and trainers' convo where he is the one lacking financial skills