Asked to be guarantor for DS who wont save - WWYD?

[wonderingannie]

I just need some perspective hear - I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or not

DS 20 in the 1st year of university started late due to covid so had a good 15 months off before, after much persuading and pushing, helping write CVs and application form etc finally got a job for around 6 months before which he saved half his wage (gave this to me to bank), to keep for when he started uni (I will add I never charged any board). He only gets the minimum loan which just covers costs of halls. Has been there for 5 months and has barely applied for any jobs, money is running out and I'm worrying! any spare money he got for xmas has been spent on games, clothes, trainers etc. Money just burns a hole in his pocket and if I hadn't pushed him to get a job pre uni he would literally not have a penny to his name right now.

He now needs to secure accommodation for next year and his loan no where near covers the cost of this, he has just this week secured a job (hooray), I'm really pleased but he is point blank refusing to send me part of his wages to save towards the astronomical rent next year (he says its embarrassing? I'm not sure who would know or why saving to ensure you can pay your rent is embarrassing). Yet he is expecting me to sign as a guarantor for this rent which if he defaults on I just cannot afford to pay. He has since said if I don't sign he will have to drop out!

He will be earning more than double what I send him weekly now (out of his savings), so saving a portion of it will still see him much better off than he is at the moment whilst ensuring his rent will get paid. He tells me he will save it but I just don't believe he has the will power to do so speaking from experience!

we are kind of at a stalemate at the moment and both likely feeling a bit blackmailed by the other

YANBU - I should trust that he will save it and sign as guarantor?

YABU - I should not sign until he agrees to send me a portion of his salary to save for rent. If he refuses let him quit.

OPs post is misleading anyway. The title is that he “won’t save” when he said he will save, he’s just not sending his mum 50% of his wages to save for him. And OP says he has a bad record for savings, but apparently OP has saved ZERO money in 20yrs towards his Uni costs but her DS saved most of his wages from a pre Uni job. The money she is sending him now, comes from HIS SAVINGS that she has control over.

In fact, the OP relates how their boiler broke and she didn’t have the savings to repair it, so took the £1800 she’d promised to DS and put ot towards the boiler instead. Why OP seems repeatedly to not have savings is a piss poor record imho.

As far who has a track record of being able to save, it’s not the OP. The DS is the only one with a track record of being able to save. She has no business not “trusting” him with his own money.

And to not be a guarantor, the most basic standard thing, is unbelievably petty sabotage. He’s already disadvantaged by not being able to get the full maintenance loan. OP is supposed to top this up. But she’s contributing nothing to help him…except demanding 50% of his wages in return for a signature.

Wow thanks for the summary. I had not realised the money OP was sending was her DS own money.

Ive been re-reading it because I also noted I voted wrong. I originally voted YABU because OP is being very unreasonable, but she also set up her voting backwards, and YANBU is “I should trust he will save up and sign as guarantor” as in vote YANBU if you think the DS is NBU, but OP is BU.

@Comefromaway

I started university in the late 80s and there was a parental contribution expected to top up grants back then. My parents refused to make their assessed contribution. I refused to let them attend my graduation. And no, I have never forgotten.

I do have an idea of how many children she has because I have read OP’s posts. She has at least three, maybe more. Perhaps read her posts yourself before calling other people ignorant.

Yes, it was much more explicit in the 80s that parents were expected to contribute, or even pay the entire lot as mine had to, if they were relatively high earners. I think when you received the letter from the grant awarding authorities it would state how much they would give you and how much your parents were expected to give. I don't think it occurred to most parents that they wouldn't pay and we all thought really badly of those who didn't.

You don't have a clue about op circumstances @orchid220
Your making an assumption about why op has no money saved without knowing the facts. Illness, divorce, DV, recent salary increase. All reasons why op may not have money to fund her DSs university.
Not every parent can afford to sub their child when they go to uni, it's just not real life.
So yes it is indeed you that is ignorant.

He has since said if I don't sign he will have to drop out!

This will be accurate. I remember my parents quibbling about being guarantors when I was at university - even though I was good with money. All second and third year accommodation required a guarantor and if they hadn't signed I would have had to drop out.

@purpleboy I disagree. OP sounds extremely bad at managing money considering her family income. Her son seems way better at managing money.

Given the number of posts from OP where she has tried to defend herself, I'm pretty sure she would have mentioned if there was any reason for not having any savings that were beyond her control.

Regardless of what happened in the past, the reason she is getting a lot of negative posts is because she says he won't save when actually he has saved. He's just refusing to give her anymore money for her to give back to him (as if she is doing him a favour). He wants to control his own earnings and given that he's 20 and is earning the money why shouldn't he? Because he is not letting her control his earnings she is refusing to sign a rent guarantee form which will mean he will have to leave university.

It is ridiculous that she is holding onto his savings and doling them out monthly.
If I was him I would be concerned she will use his savings to meet unexpected repair costs in the house as she has zero savings of his own. Indeed she may have already done that and that is why she is doling out his savings monthly.

@wonderingannie - ignoring all the backchat and bile, could there be a useful compromise where your son saves into an account of his own (so he's not sending it back to his mum, which I get is infantilising) with you as a signatory, so that you can see online that he is indeed saving. This would give you the reassurance you need to agree to be guarantor, which is standard but also risky (I was guarantor for my brother years ago, and he defaulted...). Would that be a useful way through the stalemate and blackmail?

I don't disagree @orchid220

My original comment was to another poster who was particularly vile to the op, it's uncalled for, my comment has then been jumped on by several posters continually missing my point that none of us here have any in depth knowledge into ops finances and just because you expect her to tell you doesn't mean she should, and being spectacularly rude to her helps no one.

There has been a lot of useful comments and information given to op, lots for her to think about, however the bile has made her leave the thread, as is often the case because too many posters are particularly heinous in their responses including personal attacks. That's is what I'm calling out.

If he only gets the lowest loan amount then that's because you/his dad earn enough that the government are expecting you to financially support him.

I think demanding to be a signatory on savings that are from his earnings is just as infantalising. Why should he save anyway? He probably needs the earnings to live. He is only getting a minimum loan (about 4,500) due to the fact OP’s household income is over £70,000. He will have a minimum wage part time job as he's a full time student so after paying for rent/food/bills how much would you expect him to save?

Meant to vote YABU. All parents act as guarantors on rented student houses, that’s normal practice else you usually can’t get one.

Be the guarantor, but explain you’ve got no money to top up his rent and he’ll have to get a job in the summer holidays. Be wary of him taking on too many work hours during term time; if it affects his studies and he ends up doing poorly in his degree then the whole thing will have been for nothing!

Yes, some of the bile was uncalled for. However I do think OP deserves a lot of criticism. It is extremely unreasonable to criticise her DS for not saving, when he has actually been a lot more successful than her. It is also unreasonable to try and control money that he has earned and not doing anything for him despite having a relatively high household income. The least she could do is sign the rental guarantee without trying to control his earnings.

I think sometimes life isn’t fair and you’ve got to make the best of the cards you’ve been dealt. He was given the option of going to a local university and having no costs at home but wanted to go to a uni further away and was fully aware of what that would mean for him finance wise, he had a choice and he made it. Going and getting a tattoo when you know you should be saving the money is not exactly ideal. Tattoos are bloody expensive! And he will have to learn to sacrifice some things because you can’t have it all especially as a student, compromises have to be made.

Did he have the option of going locally? I can't see that in any of OP's posts. If there was a local uni perhaps it doesn't do the course he wanted, or perhaps it's crap. Who'd choose Solent for example if they were offered Durham?

OP said ‘He wanted to move to a big city so refused to attend a nearby university’

The way student finance is calculated(rightly or wrongly), there is an expectation that parents will contribute. If he’s only entitled to the minimum loan, the assumption is that you will top up the difference to the maximum amount.

Perhaps that is more the cause of the budget issue than anything else.

The best universities are generally in the big cities. I don't really get the expectation that he should save as well as support himself. OP isn't giving him her own money. She's just giving him back the money that he has already saved. Nobody is expected to save as well as eat/pay rent and bills on a minimum part time wage except students, it seems.

You also generally stand far more chance of getting a job in a big student city. Dd really struggled to get p/t work when she was studying in a smaller place. She moved for postgrad and got the first thing she applied to. Plus you have to look at the course/graduation prospects etc etc.

@Rafferty10

I’m afraid your post is just ignorant. Agree with it or not, the student finance system expects and assumes a parental contribution to living costs at university. The degree of funding provided by the government is dependent on parental income.

Equally, most private accommodation will expect a guarantor for any tenant whose income is not 3 times the annual rent cost. Clearly, students will need a guarantor and parents need to step up.

I don’t get this weird attitude on mumsnet that DC should be out the door to fend for themselves at 18. That is not the reality of the way student funding works.

I just know that I will do whatever it takes to ensure my children can do their degree and compete on as level as playing field as possible with other young people their age.