To not allow BIL unsupervised access to my DS

[Hennyspennies]

I am seeking advice on this as I want to be sure I am doing the right thing by my DS and not for selfish reasons.

Warning : May be triggering, mentions sexual assault.

Back story - Strained relationship with BIL for the past 7 years. This was due to a breakdown in family relationships after BIL's DD sexually molested my DS. She was 11, DS was 1. My DS doesn't remember this, as he was unable to talk, we never found out what fully happened.

I believe there was no real responsibility taken, other than a quick sorry from my S & BIL when the incident happened. DN never spoke to me about it, or said sorry.
I believed DN needed help (another red flag incident when she was 6) but as far as I know never received any. It was swept under the rug.

Family were expected to get on as normal. My parents expected everyone to meet up as usual with no safeguarding issues re the kids or respect for my families difficult feelings at this time.
Things were strained.

I tried to speak with them about our feelings and concerns respectfully but nothing changed so I kept my distance.

Fast forward 7 years. My S & BIL have been in our lives on and off more frequently. Months in-between visits (they live near by). I still feel uncomfortable in their presence as they I've noticed they usually spend time with us when they want something.

My DS is really into football at the moment and BIL coaches a local kids team. Without asking me or my DH he told my son that he would take him to see football matches, teach him how to play etc. Has already bought him a football shirt.

Since BIL hasn't been involved in my DS life much and because of failure to safeguard him in the past, I feel uncomfortable with the idea of my DS going anywhere with him unsupervised. This applies to my S too. My DH agrees with me.

DS was super excited his U wanted to to all this with him of course. However, he is unaware of what happened when he was younger.

I felt it appropriate to agree to football trips and training so long as myself or DH are present. AIBU?

BIL keeps pushing for alone time with my DS. (He has 4 DD so appreciates my DS love of football).

I also have 2 older DD which he shows little interest in.

Any advice or thoughts welcome.

Exactly what I was coming on to write
as for BIL he wouldn’t be seeing my children at all.

No no no no. And if asked I would say why.

Obviously, trust your gut OP.

YANBU Go with your gut. A simple sorry does not work with our schedule.
Go extremely low contact and find a new football club for your DS.

Agree with the others who suggest your niece was likely exposed to abuse too, it's the first alarm bells that rang when I read your OP. Were authorities made aware of the the 2 occurrences when your niece was caught? I'd be keeping your DC away from all unsupervised contact with your S and BIL, if he's at football practice will he have to use changing rooms/showers? An old football coach where I live used coaching to get close to his victims and he was a pillar of the community type! Parents never saw it coming a whole decade later! Also another big alarm bell ringing is that those involved are hush hushing and sweeping it under the carpet, it's how abusers get away with it and why no one believes survivors when they finally open up. Please keep your child away from them and anyone else willing to look the other way.

@honeyytoast

Exactly.

No. Absolutely non negotiable. Too important.

NOPE. As others have said, I would strongly suspect him of having abused his own daughter. Aint no way in hell he'd be having access to my kid.

He shouldn't be given supervised access, let alone unsupervised.

The daughter has been taught by whom? It’s obvious the BIL is an abuser - which explains why he likes coaching kids football.

Were social services / school involved when the niece aged 6 and then again aged 11 showed signs of sexualisation and sexual assault to another child?

It’s a massive indicator she has been the victim of abuse.

Agree keep your children well away from S and BIL with no unsupervised time with your son, but who is looking out for your niece in this? Why is it that you aren’t asking more from her school / SS? She is clearly a victim here and the adults in her life need to be looked at urgently. How old is the niece now?

Your Bil is willing to minimise the abuse of a child for an easy life, an abuser himself or both. Your son would not be under appropriate supervision with him. Don’t risk your son.

YANBU. There is no way I'd allow alone time. I think it would be an idea for your DH to tell him this and be very clear about it.

Non negotiable no to unsupervised time. You’re doing the safest thing for your child.

Exactly what I was about to say. This little girl didn't do that from her own imagination, its something she has seen or experienced. I think there should have been more investigation into what she's seen at home

YANBU. 'Thanks BIL, but as it happens DS has already signed up to train with X team'.

I wouldn't be prepared to take any risks with my children. However, it is possible that the DN experienced abuse from someone other than BIL, so assuming that there are no specific reasons to be concerned with him in particular then it's better to keep things civil.

Pushing for "alone time" with a child is a massive red flag. Either accompany DS to footie training or find another team

Totally agree with this. Such a shame for your niece that nobody bothered to look at the possible reason she assaulted your son.

I think YABU to have any relationship at all with them
phase them out, don’t have them around your DS.
there were 2 issues. They didn’t think about the welfare of their DD and get her help.
they didn’t seem concerned about the welfare of your DS.
they are now trampling your boundaries, with no care about your concerns for DSs safety.
they cannot be trusted

Surely the police and social services put a safety plan in place regarding the children having contact etc? Why were your parents content to ignore that? Not least because your niece likely needed some intervention to establish the reasons behind her actions… I’d be cutting off BIL completely.

Sexual behaviour in a child suggests sexual abuse. That would enough of a red flag, not to mention the failure to deal with their daughter’s behaviour, that I’d be not spending any time with my sister or brother in law again.

I wouldn't want any of them anywhere near my child. Covered in red flags. I really wish you'd have reported the incident to the police but I understand why you didn't.

An 11 yo sexually assaulting another child has got that behaviour from somewhere.

I would also tell your son that he is not allowed to be alone with BIL and honestly I'd even go as far as to inform the school he is never to collect him. You need to protect him.

Would you be surprised if it came out he was abusing kids that he coaches or his own kids? Child abusers exist in our families and they don't have it tattooed on their foreheads. But this bloke does not scream "safe adult"

No no no no no. Not under any circumstances, supervised or not.

Abuse can and does happen ‘in plain sight’ even when the child is ‘supervised’. Children take their parent’s lead when interacting with other adults By normalising the relationship with the BIL it’s giving your son the message that this person can be trusted and leaves him extremely vulnerable to grooming and abuse. It also leaves YOU vulnerable to grooming as well - you start out all hyper vigilant, never leave them alone never let them out your sight, then after a while you get lulled into a false sense of security, then before you know it child needs the loo, daddy is on the phone, BIL says no problem I’ll take him…

Just no.

Absolutely no way would I allow this man alone time with my child. Have you considered the likelihood that your DN was subject to abuse when younger which led to her abusing your DS? What did your S and BIL do about DN? Abuse is statistically much more likely to happen by an adult a child knows.

And why is he so excited about your DS loving football? Are none of his DDs interested? Does he show interest in his own DDs hobbbies? He sounds like a sexist twat if nothing else

Thank you

Absolutely no way should this man be alone with any child.
“BIL keeps pushing for alone time with my DS.” - this on its own is a red flag. Before MN I’d never heard of relatives pushing for “alone time”. It’s very strange even when it’s innocent. But this man asking your child without asking you first is a gigantic red flag. He’s getting the child excited about a treat, and using that to manipulate you into allowing it.