To object to having to call a man accused of rape 'she' in a criminal court trial?

[Appalonia]

Firstly, the definition of rape is penetration by a penis without consent. Only men have a penis. This case makes a mockery of the law and the criminal justice process and is a gross victimisation of this victim?
www.clydebankpost.co.uk/news/23259685.clydebank-court-hears-woman-raped-clydebank-home/?ref=twtrec

Anyone who twists themselves into tight pretzels to say why it’s ok for penises to be in women’s prisons really needs to re-examine their thought process.

Yes they do. I hold each of these people - every single politician, every single policy maker, every single person who willingly plays along with this game, personally and individually reponsible for the mess they've created.

And no, I won't be compelled. Not even in court. As I've said before, I'd rather be jailed.

DotJones
on the off-chance that you’re not trolling, we don’t use rape, the threat of rape, or the fear of rape as punishments in this country. Even female prisoners have human rights. Imagine that!

All of this, but just wanted to add

NO DEBATE

I'm so done with feeble excuses

I keep saying this, but how the actual fuck did we get to this point?

Whose agenda is driving this?

Perverts

Just wanted to say the word, nothing to do with any comments in the vicinity of mine.

"My view is that first and foremost, this rapist is a CRIMINAL. The people they are locked up with are CRIMINALS. That is the most important thing that must be considered before deciding whether they're male or female or what religion they are or anything else - they are CRIMINALS who deserve to be locked up. If a female prisoner is unhappy about being locked up with this rapist, if she feels threatened or unsafe, hopefully she will use those feelings constructively to take a hard look at herself and the reasons for her being in prison, and to not return to crime if she gets released."

Well in that case let's just do away with sex segregation in prison and stick all men and women in together, eh? Because from what you're saying, that's the logical thing to do.

My logic, on the other hand, says stick the rapist in a men's prison, where anyone who can tell what a penis looks like knows they belong, and if he/she/cat/dog gets a hard time there, oh well too bad!

Shocking. Just warped!! How is this happening? Why isn’t there outrage more widely?

Isn’t it funny how the only calls for “well the criminals should think of that and not get themselves into that situation…” only applies to the female criminals in this case.

Not the male criminals. Not the “suddenly I’m going to prison so I’m going to say I’m a woman” criminals.

Just the females.

Yes, when it comes to the MALE CRIMINALS it’s all about ’poor man, he might be upset/get hurt/actually face some -gasp- violence!’

Women? Oh they can just suck it up.

When you think about it it’s also akin to sending a bank robber to serve their sentence in a bank.

What other crime would you get to spend your sentence in a place where there are multiple daily opportunities to repeat the offence?

Because you can bet your bottom dollar there won’t be solitary cells for these men due to that being “unfair”. So they’ll have the chance to repeat their crime every single night.

In their logic then surely it's ok for all the women to go well i identify as innocent. Bye I'm off to catch the bus

People should have been up in arms about this right from the beginning. But nobody gave a fuck, because, well, men get what men want. Oh and ‘be kind’ to the men.

And because we looked back and saw the struggle for women’s/race/gay rights and were - rightly - horrified at how bitterly those battles were fought against those who didn’t lose by the granting of equality but didn’t want to give it anyway.

So when a new set of rights came along - trans equality - many of us thought “Yeah, I’m OK with that, and I’m definitely not going down the route I saw society go down before”. We were told our niggling fears were unfounded and, well, be kind and all that.

By the time we realised that women’s rights and safeties were being trampled over, it was almost too late. The Denton’s Playbook was in use, Stonewall had adopted the TQ+ alphabet soup and were making sure every organisation from the police to rape crisis centres were signed up to their interpretation of the law in the name of being an ally, lesbians were being told to have sex with transwomen with penises or be called a “sexual racist”, workshops were being run on “How to overcome to cotton ceiling” (the “cotton ceiling” to be overcome being women’s knickers) and dissenters were being silenced by harassment, the loss of their jobs, public doxxing and so forth.

And the fuckers nearly got away with it. Pesky women, eh?

Why isn’t there outrage more widely?

Because we were told that trans people were the most marginalised and oppressed* which, by and large, gave a free pass to the most appalling behaviour. Women who protested were harassed, slandered (“Transphobe! Nazi! Fascist!”) hounded out of their jobs and threatened. Many organisations, including the press, turned a blind eye either because they didn’t want the mob to turn on them or because we should “be kind”.

Also because a lot of people don’t know the stats about the number of trans women in prisons who are sex offenders, or that most transwomen keep their sexual organs etc.

• thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

We’ve been talking about this here for YEARS. I’m angry that so many people didn’t listen. I’m angry that we were shunted off to the ‘naughty corner’. I’m angry that so many numpties didn’t/don’t do any thinking for themselves.

I’m just plain angry.

But fine. This is what people wanted, so this is what we got.

It’s the same with anything - people are lazy and don’t care until it affects them or someone they care about.

I think to many it all seemed so absurd ten years ago I would not have believed we would be having this discussion

I’m angry at the men trying to bully women and those that side with them for reasons I find hard to understand

to think that men with beards who wear a dress can self identify as a women is absurd so I do understand that people don’t quite get it

To be honest, I think a huge factor in this is that many people agree with DotJones that rape in prison should be part of the penalty for incarcerated women. They think the fear of being housed with rapists should be a deterrent to committing crime. They're simply not brave enough to say it. Credit to Dot for being willing to say it, even if she's never willing to reply.To all of you who secretly think she has a point, I'd like you to actually think about your own interests, even if you don't have sympathy for female prisoners.The photos show 'Isla', formerly Adam Graham. He has been convicted of raping two women, and his estranged wife has spoken to the press to say he abused her, including sexually. He is currently in a women's prison, while the judge decides on what length jail term to hand down. From what I've read of the case, this man is not going to get given a whole-life sentence. He's going to be released, and when he is released, he will assuredly be young enough to rape again.Pay attention to this bit: I don't have the impression he has much to go back to in his life outside prison. He's been homeless or sofa-surfing for years.When he's released, and he will be, he may struggle with life outside prison. He will stop getting fed everyday, he won't have a roof over his head, and if he's been housed in a women's prison all that time, he'll lose access to captive women to terrorise. He'll miss that.He enjoys raping women and he has raped or attempted to rape three women that we know of. Prison is supposed to be a deterrent for rapists. However if he knows that he will be rehoused in a women's prison, he won't be so highly motivated to resist his urge to rape. In fact, he may actually be motivated to get sent to prison again! Plainly put, that means, raping another woman (or two!) outside prison. You, or a woman you do care about, might be who he picks.So I suggest that you campaign to ensure that 'Isla' and other men like him go to men's prison. When a rapist thinks the consequence of rape is being rewarded with daily access to a set of trapped women, it means he is aware he could get rewarded for raping you as well.

To be honest, I think a huge factor in this is that many people agree with DotJones that rape in prison should be part of the penalty for incarcerated women. They think the fear of being housed with rapists should be a deterrent to committing crime. They're simply not brave enough to say it. Credit to Dot for being willing to say it, even if she's never willing to reply.

To all of you who secretly think she has a point, I'd like you to actually think about your own interests, even if you don't have sympathy for female prisoners.

The photos show 'Isla', formerly Adam Graham. He has been convicted of raping two women, and his estranged wife has spoken to the press to say he abused her, including sexually. He is currently in a women's prison, while the judge decides on what length jail term to hand down. From what I've read of the case, this man is not going to get given a whole-life sentence. He's going to be released, and when he is released, he will assuredly be young enough to rape again.

Pay attention to this bit: I don't have the impression he has much to go back to in his life outside prison. He's been homeless or sofa-surfing for years.

When he's released, and he will be, he may struggle with life outside prison. He will stop getting fed everyday, he won't have a roof over his head, and if he's been housed in a women's prison all that time, he'll lose access to captive women to terrorise. He'll miss that.

He enjoys raping women and he has raped or attempted to rape three women that we know of. Prison is supposed to be a deterrent for rapists. However if he knows that he will be rehoused in a women's prison, he won't be so highly motivated to resist his urge to rape. In fact, he may actually be motivated to get sent to prison again!

Plainly put, that means, raping another woman (or two!) outside prison. You, or a woman you do care about, might be who he picks. So I suggest that you campaign to ensure that 'Isla' and other men like him go to men's prisons. When a rapist thinks the consequence of rape is being rewarded with daily access to a set of trapped women, it means he is aware he could get rewarded for raping you as well.

With the exception of this They're simply not brave enough to say it. Credit to Dot for being willing to say it (i really hope there aren’t masses of people who think the same way and brave is not the word i think of when i think of dots post) i agree completely and utterly with you

its the same feeling i get when people say that one or two women being raped is collateral damage, if thats the case then you volunteer your daughter or yourself to be raped you chump

Even The Guardian finds itself unable to hide from this case.

Responding to the news, Reem Asalem, the UN’s special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, said she was “Remembering the many times we were told that the idea that predatory and violent males may want to take advantage of the presence of loopholes in system and weak safeguards to enter spaces reserved for females was ludicrous!”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/25/trans-woman-isla-bryson-guilty-raping-two-women-remanded-in-female-prison-scotland

I don’t agree with your comments re female prisoners.

but I do agree with your last paragraph.

I think more women need to take action. We need to write to our MPs, we need to attend the Events that the various women’s groups organise and we need to protest. We need to stop this rubbish for our daughters, our grand daughters etc.

Pretty certain that Guardian article never calls the rapist 'she', they (ha!) bottle it and use his name, 'they' or other words.

After the conviction, Bryson was remanded in custody to the women’s prison Cornton Vale, where it is understood she is being kept in segregation, until sentencing at the end of February.

I hope that's correct @bignosebignose I saw a fragment on an interview yesterday with a woman who managed a jail (forget the name but she's spoken at SFW rallies). She said he'd have to be released into the general population after 72 hours unless someone signed off on him being kept longer in isolation.

I hope people read the above. Neighbour speaks a lot of sense.