To object to having to call a man accused of rape 'she' in a criminal court trial?

[Appalonia]

Firstly, the definition of rape is penetration by a penis without consent. Only men have a penis. This case makes a mockery of the law and the criminal justice process and is a gross victimisation of this victim?
www.clydebankpost.co.uk/news/23259685.clydebank-court-hears-woman-raped-clydebank-home/?ref=twtrec

Don't use any pronouns. Use the accused, or person on trial. I would avoid using any pronouns and would likely be persuaded by victims account.

As a Christian I would not be able to swear on the Bible and then tell a lie. I would have to clarify with the court that they are compelling me to lie in contravention of my faith.

I am pleased that the newspaper refers to the defendant as Adam (the “dead name”) and “he”.

You are absolutely right OP

As this is in Scotland, there is a chance that this person, if jailed, will be sent to a women's prison. If not now then later in the sentence. This person could insist on being searched by female officers, no matter how they feel about it. I'm being careful about the pronouns I use for this person because MN (although thank you for letting us have these thread) can be a bit twitchy about misgendering.

There is a Government petition currently collecting signatures to try to strengthen the Equality Act to keep men out of women's prison, hospital wards, domestic violence shelters, etc. If you haven't already, please follow the link below to sign it and share it if you can

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=33&reply=122785416

Gosh you're right, someone's feelings might get hurt, who cares about traumatised women.

WOMEN DO NOT HAVE PENISES

Surely you just use they and them.. instead of 'and then what did she do' its 'and then what did they do'... no need to specify gender at all if you're careful,

Yes you're right we wouldn't want to upset a rapist

You expect a rape victim to be "careful" about pronouns when giving evidence, having sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

If you tolerate this, then your children will be next.

By the way, next time a group of rabid progressives tells you to follow the science on anything, just remember, they make up their own science to suit their agenda.

As an atheist, I would similarly not be able to lie after making the affirmation 'I ... do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

If you accept that women can rape (they can't) it skews the stats on rapists. Also means if convicted, he will be put in a women's prison. We don't want that, do we?

It's pretty important to specify sex in a rape trial

From the OP’s post wording it sounded like she was objecting as a journalist or court worker so I assumed she was coming at it from an impersonal but morally frustrated place. Yes I think it’s horrible to penalise a victim for misgendering, particularly as they were living as a man when the victim would have know them and the offence occurred anyway.

Abhorrent disgusting wrong

In this case, when the crime occurred, the man that did it was Adam. It doesn't matter if they are a she now - at the time "isla didn't do it" but Adam did. If Adam did it, then Adam should be sent to a male prison as it'd not be right to send isla to prison as she didn't even exist then.
I'm talking semantics of course - it's a fucking stupid world we live in right now.

A victim being forced to refer to her attacker in court as "she" is a pretty big thing when trying to give evidence.

I’m sorry what. Who gives a toss what the rapist is pretending to be now, at the time of the attack he was a male and should be trialled and treated like one. I certainly wouldn’t be calling him she in a court as he most definitely isn’t and will never be one.

Source for this?

using pronouns isn't a criteria for receiving this compensation. It's not relevant legally in the decision making process.

This can't be accurate.

You are spectacularly missing the point.

To be eligible for criminal injuries compensation you have to comply with the legal process. The magistrate reprimanded her for not used the ' correct ' pronouns during the trial. I assure you this is completely accurate, no matter how far fetched it sounds.

This account in the Evening Standard, although not entirely accurate, makes it clear about the situation re criminal injuries compensation and pronouns. Tara Wolf is 6 ft 4 and now a kick boxer in Thailand, btw.in a
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/transgender-activist-tara-wolf-fined-ps150-for-assaulting-exclusionary-radical-feminist-in-hyde-park-a3813856.html

I understand the "playing them at their own game" aspect of pointing out that Adam committed this crime before transitioning, so therefore we can refer to him as "he/him". But what about the times when a man commits violent crimes after he's transitioned? He'll still be a man, regardless of what he likes to believe.

It's so infuriating and almost incomprehensible that people and legal systems are catering to the bizarre fetishes and mental illnesses of the few and expecting the rest of us to lie to perpetuate the sick fantasy that it's possible to magically change your DNA. When will this slide into insanity stop?!