Wwyd overheard office bitching session

[WhaleTanker]

I work in an office. I am at the top of the management structure in our office, along with 6 other people who are the same level as me. I am the newest member and only female in this group.

We each have our own projects going on which we manage independently of each other, and then there are some office level projects, staff management, recruitment etc that we all do as a group. We are all accountable to central management which is located in another office, but we are not activley monitored by anyone because we are basically at the top level ourselves.

4 of the 6 leaders decided to have a very bitchy and nasty conversation in an open space in the office about me. I was just around the corner eating my late lunch. I heard every word. it was about 10 mins long. Anyone else could have heard it too, although to be fair I am not sure there was anyone else. Beside the point, anyway.

I am so hurt to hear those things. My heart was beating so hard, I felt sick and I was trying to decide whether to make my presence known and go for confrontation. They dispersed just as I had decided to move and thereby let them know I was there.

What do I do now? Let them know I heard their conversation?

What they did was awful. Had they done it privately, I wouldn't know about it. I am not saying people can't talk about colleagues, obviously they can and do. Just that it sgould a) be more constructive/professional and b) shouldn't be in an open, public space where others can hear. Or do the adult thing and tell me to my face they have a problem so it can be addressed. What they were saying was just nasty stuff and not an actual thing I have done wrong.

If I confront them, it will be horrible and possibly make things worse. Not sure I have the strength to go through massive amounts of confrontation. One of the people in particular is someone who resolves issues through open combat (perhaps that is the best way?). I shy away from conflict if I can.

Or do I say nothing and carry on with festering resentment and hurt?

There are 2 leaders who were not part of this. I don't want to start getting "sides" going. Do I somehow involve them? How?

HR is an option, but in the office structure, we the leaders are basically above them, so it would have to go the the HR person in Central management. That will cause world war 3.

This behaviour needs calling out, I know that. If I as a senior person can't call it out, how can the junior people be expected to speak up.

But how do I do it?

I disagree that it's victim blaming, and I say that as someone who has ASD and really struggles with work relationships. It is important that we get along with our colleagues, so if their complaint about the OP is justified, like she wears really strong perfume that gives them a headache, then that is something she should consider changing to make a more pleasant work environment, even if they went about it in the wrong way. If it is just that they don't like her personality, there is nothing she can do about that. I would still raise that bitching about her in an open office where anyone can hear it is really unprofessional. So, I do think the context is important.

Agree with this.

Very good advice from Hundredmiles.

4 men who deliberately get together to bitch about their female colleagues wil not suddenly see the error of their ways if you meet them individually. It’ll just make them defensive.

Theyre obviously feeling threatened by you.

Id note what they said for myself, state & time. Then I’d do nothing. I’d be extra smiley but keep them at arms lengt & appear helpful but not put myself out. If I got a chance in conversation I’d drop on what they said casually.

They’re colleagues, not your mates. I’ve been in that situation.

Do you really want to continue in this environment? I'd be speaking to your leader about it and if what they were saying was as offensive as you're suggesting I'd expect them all to be put on leave pending an investigation. It's not just about you it's about their ability to manage others integrity etc

Second that

She says she’s the only female in her OP.

So sorry you are going through this OP. I would be exactly the same!

Having been the victim in a similar situation where I eventually gave notice I would suggest you log every single incident recording date, time, location, individuals present, what was said including derogatory language used, including racist remarks if applicable, any witnesses and how the comments made you feel. Somebody suggested recording but my understanding is that this is not admissible if the individuals being recorded do not know about it, although I’m sure lawyers on the forum can confirm.

If there are no further incidents you may decide not to progress further.

However, if this continues log a formal complaint with HR in writing. Please do not let it continue as it will wear you down. It’s quite uncomfortable doing this but you really have to, to protect your position if it progresses further.

When I gave notice, I told Board members why as by then I was past caring. They were horrified that this was going on. Action taken was swift and decisive. The individual was disciplined in accordance with Group policy and had to resign or be dismissed after due process. They obviously gave their version. The individual’s constructive dismissal claim was not upheld due to the records I had kept.

My health suffered because I did not have the courage to speak out earlier. I now have a policy of ensuring that staff feel able to talk to me in confidence if they encounter any form of behaviour that they find upsetting or makes them feel uncomfortable and will always support them if they wish to take it further. Just think their way of behaving could well be impacting junior members of staff who don’t have the courage to speak up.

Not nice op. As an aside I don’t understand the comments on here of them being men, I don’t see what their sex has anything to do with it? Would it matter if it was four women talking about her ? It really doesn’t ,they don’t like her for whatever reason it doesn’t mean it’s because she’s a woman. Trust me I’ve worked in many offices and women are far more bitchy than men. Op I think you have to be a grown up and have a word with these people and ask them what their issues are and how they want to resolve them.
I think they would be so embarrassed about being caught bitching it would nip it in the bud. It would also garner more respect that you had been a grown up about it and had a conversation before rushing to get people into trouble and you had given them that chance, they would know you could go to HR and cause a scene so I think they would appreciate that you had approached them and been the professional. If this tactic backfires and they are rude or it continues then you can always escalate it. There is always bitching in office workplaces, this is very normal but not usually from senior managers , they are meant to act more professional. I hope they apologise to you and you can move forward.

they sound awful

I had similar happen to me. I isolated them one by one and said I'd been made aware of their comments and icily disputed the points they'd made.

Jeez did they shit themselves.

Several of them unnecessarily apologised sheepishly to me years later when I left the organisation and we had all moved on from it. My dressing them down obviously left a mark.

Gosh this is horrible to read. I am so so sorry. Workplace bullies are vile and ruin lives. No advice, only sympathy.

Definitely write down who was there, the time and situation and where you were. Write down who said what and as much as you can remember, even if it takes you a few days. Then you have time to think and remember and decide who to tell in your office.

Workplace bullies are the worse

Been through it

It's hell

Op I hope this gets resolved
Sorry you had to listen to their bs

Ugh. Im so sorry that happened to you. Sleep on it and see how you feel about it tomorrow or maybe give it the weekend.

This is what I would do x

The nature of what they were saying makes such a massive difference to the advice i would give, yet despite being repeatedly asked whether it was personal, or to do with her work, op hasn't been back to bless us with that information

This doesn’t help you OP I’m sorry.

But Christ I love working from home!

Were you senior to them?

OP given that you are all top level, I'm now wondering if they did know you were there.

so true!

Thanks all.

I have spent some time making notes now, and although that part was upsetting, I do feel a bit better having done that.

I think some of the ideas here are really great, and so helpful to have the combined MN brains come up with strategies when all I can think of is how upset I am.

In response to some earlier questions:

• I have been there 15 years and risen through the ranks.
• these 4 are a fair bit older and more experienced
• we have targets and these 4 are not doing great. The other two and I are meeting and exceeding our targets.
• the content of their conversation was taking snippets of things I had said at an earlier full team meeting and deliberately misinterpreting them to the point where the actual thing I had said was turned into something completely different. An analogy of how things escalated would be "She said she doesn't go camping because she doesn't like mosquitoes. I bet she kills them. She basically is an insect killer. How cruel. She has no regards for biodiversity. She goes around murdering animals. What a horrible human being. She is a murderer". It was such a pile on.

OP my heart goes out to you. You sound remarkably calm and collected about what must have been a horrendous experience. Some excellent advice on here but I just wanted to send support

I had this once. I emailed the offenders individually stating I’d heard, I didn’t appreciate it, if they have issues raise them correctly, it was unprofessional.

im not sure if it’s the correct way to deal with it, but it worked.

it’s crap I’m sorry you had to hear it.

Given their lack of performance, and what you've said about them twisting your words, I think that only strengthens your position if you take the approach Mavis outlined. You can helpfully clarify your position, and it's just another mark against their names if it goes further.