Wwyd overheard office bitching session

[WhaleTanker]

I work in an office. I am at the top of the management structure in our office, along with 6 other people who are the same level as me. I am the newest member and only female in this group.

We each have our own projects going on which we manage independently of each other, and then there are some office level projects, staff management, recruitment etc that we all do as a group. We are all accountable to central management which is located in another office, but we are not activley monitored by anyone because we are basically at the top level ourselves.

4 of the 6 leaders decided to have a very bitchy and nasty conversation in an open space in the office about me. I was just around the corner eating my late lunch. I heard every word. it was about 10 mins long. Anyone else could have heard it too, although to be fair I am not sure there was anyone else. Beside the point, anyway.

I am so hurt to hear those things. My heart was beating so hard, I felt sick and I was trying to decide whether to make my presence known and go for confrontation. They dispersed just as I had decided to move and thereby let them know I was there.

What do I do now? Let them know I heard their conversation?

What they did was awful. Had they done it privately, I wouldn't know about it. I am not saying people can't talk about colleagues, obviously they can and do. Just that it sgould a) be more constructive/professional and b) shouldn't be in an open, public space where others can hear. Or do the adult thing and tell me to my face they have a problem so it can be addressed. What they were saying was just nasty stuff and not an actual thing I have done wrong.

If I confront them, it will be horrible and possibly make things worse. Not sure I have the strength to go through massive amounts of confrontation. One of the people in particular is someone who resolves issues through open combat (perhaps that is the best way?). I shy away from conflict if I can.

Or do I say nothing and carry on with festering resentment and hurt?

There are 2 leaders who were not part of this. I don't want to start getting "sides" going. Do I somehow involve them? How?

HR is an option, but in the office structure, we the leaders are basically above them, so it would have to go the the HR person in Central management. That will cause world war 3.

This behaviour needs calling out, I know that. If I as a senior person can't call it out, how can the junior people be expected to speak up.

But how do I do it?

What is the gist of what they were saying? I think it makes a difference.

I think I'd approach ot differently depending on what they were saying.

If they were saying 'OP has awful dress sense and an annoying laugh and she irritates me' then that's personal and completely unacceptable and unprofessional. If they were saying 'OPs work isnt up to scratch - there were a high number of errors and it was late' or 'staff in OPs team are complaining about her' then that is still awful of them to talk about you to each other in public but it's a bit more factual and maybe something one of them does need help with knowing how to approach. And there may be other things to consider aside from their behaviour

I think this is your best first option.

They can’t really challenge it - they know they had the conversation and you are not accusing them of anything specific that they can refute without having to clarify what they did say. You’re offering to resolve any professional work-related issues.

Keep a copy of the email. Write your own private account of what you heard, with date and time, in case you need it later.

Above all, keep your head held high. You’re threatening to them, clearly - that means you’re doing a good job!

Yes OP has. But there's always one poster who has to take the "poor, unfairly denigrated, little menz" line, sigh.

Ah. Stupidly missed that.

I am the newest member and only female in this group

I suggest you re-read the first post.

@MavisTheMonkey I think this is really good advice

Don't tell them you were upset. In this context, it's likely to be regarded as a sign of weakness

Better to be calm and professional, but uninpressed

Definitely do what Mavis said.

OP That's awful. I can't imagine how you must be feeling. I kind of like MavisTheMonkey's advice on the whole but I would log it with HR at other site too.

Please don't approach them individually, face to face, because they could get unpleasant and you need a "paper trail".

God, how awful. What trashy behaviour.

Well if they ever say women are bitchy...................... you can let them have it both barrels.

I would have addressed it at the time. What were they moaning about? You probably need to clear the air with them.

I wouldn’t send an email - I’d call a meeting between you and those concerned “ to discuss the conversation that took place in the office yesterday “
Say you overheard some of what was said and would prefer to try to resolve issues face to face
I know this might be difficult if you don’t like confrontation ( it doesn’t bother me ) but as a manager you need to be able to show that you won’t be intimidated and to address problems yourself rather than ignore / escalate them .
Good luck !

I would write everything down for my own benefit.
I would sit on it for now but make sure they know I’d heard everything.

This. I wouldn’t say a word. Make notes though and keep them. I’m probably older than you and I know I am pretty jaded with people in general, but in a way I would be glad to know how they really felt about me. It would mean I had the upper hand in any future dealings with them and wouldn’t get sucked in to time wasting “friendships”.

What were they saying, was there any truth in it? Do you know what’s caused them to dislike you?

Though this is really good advice tbh.

She said she is the only female in the group.

I think this is a good approach but I'd tweak it slightly to

"Your conversation was overheard..."

...by removing the "I overheard" it will create uncertainty amongst them re exactly who overheard them and how many people might have heard and told the OP. It also minimises them claiming the OP was mistaken/misunderstood if there's a possibility of multiple witnesses.

I'd also remove the comment about not escalating. The OP shouldn't give away her options unnecessarily. She gains nothing by saying she won't escalate this time but they get something to hold over her if she changes her mind about escalating later. These men are clearly fuckers. By saying she won't escalate, the OP is showing weakness to them. It's a very female approach to say that. She needs to sit tight, don't make any promises and instead let them fear what she might do. (I'm a senior woman in a male dominated management team).

I'm so sorry this has happened to you x

I think what you do needs to depend on how you want things to pan out with these shitty guys going forward. HR/ a grievance etc might be the right course of action but it will also make working relations worse. so it's a tough call depending on what you want to achieve.

If you need to continue tolerating these shits or working closely with them I'd be tempted to approach them individually. (Bullies tend to be far nastier in a gang).
Be up front and send an email to all of them saying that you overheard what they said and that you're concerned and disappointed that they're unhappy with you. Then ask each one to an individual meeting with you where you ask them to be honest with you if they have any issues and that you'd prefer they discuss things with you up front so you can work through problems together. Tell them they've crossed a professional line and you can't accept that.

My bet is that one to one they'll bend over backwards to cover their shitty arses and show how supportive they are of you. You can show your professional boundaries and perhaps even get some genuine apologies.

Good luck. It sounds horrible.

Id quite enjoy the fact they know i know what they did and I think it would empower me actually. I would stick my nose in the air and continue my job and just wait. This will come unstuck all by itself in my experience. I would do nothing.

I agree with Mavis.

If you’re that senior in the team then you need to show diplomacy rather than just running to HR and crying/moaning.

In this situation, I would quietly approach the friendliest of the four (ideally tagging it at the end of a proper work conversation), and say that you overheard, that you were disappointed to learn that everyone had such a low opinion about you, and if there’s any specific feedback that he can give to help you as the newest member of the team, then you’d be all ears. Moreover, it’s also a bit alarming that such conversations were being had in a place where they could clearly be overheard, and you hope other people hadn’t experienced the same thing.

I’d also hint to the others that I heard and/or have a similar conversation.

You basically need to appeal to their better selves. They may be appalled to learn they were overheard. One may feel like he was being egged on etc, and feel bad that he didn’t speak up when he knew it wasn’t right.

If this all fails and it turns out they’re all utter knobs and it’s a culture thing not a one off, then look for a new job.

Ultimately, if you go to HR or complain to someone above their heads then they will all double down and absolutely hate you. If you’re that senior in your company, then you need to fight your own battle.

Huge.

atm I'd be inclined to say nothing.

if you overheard them plotting to get you fired, it's totally different.

if it was bitchy stuff - yes, they're unprofessional and stupid but still I'd keep quiet. If you're feeling brave, you could, next time someone is a bit loud, say something like "careful - you never know who might overhear" with a Look, and then they'll know.

but on the basis of the info we have, I'd keep quiet.

How awful, so sorry op

Divide and conquer.

set up meeting with mr a / ask a secretary to take minutes

1 start off with
a conversation was over heard where you were discussing myself and other managers in an unprofessional way

1. this is a forum for you to air those opinions in a PROFESSIONAL manner - do you wish to raise any issues ?

minute question and respond

if nothing is raised then

1. you were overheard saying …… can you explain why you said this ?

to finish
*. this is the forum to raise any issues directly to me in a polite and non confrontional manner

to raise and discuss opinions in the office in ‘public’ and be overheard and being so rude and aggressive is highly unprofessional and is a disciplinary issue - please ensure it does not happen again- or a formal disciplinary May well be invoke.

same with man 2 etc have them in and make it clear that you are the manager but they do not discuss any member of the team like this as it is not conducive to a positive working environment.

minute everything

pass the lot to hr as minutes