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Original poster

Wwyd overheard office bitching session

310 replies

WhaleTanker · 19/01/2023 19:44

I work in an office. I am at the top of the management structure in our office, along with 6 other people who are the same level as me. I am the newest member and only female in this group.

We each have our own projects going on which we manage independently of each other, and then there are some office level projects, staff management, recruitment etc that we all do as a group. We are all accountable to central management which is located in another office, but we are not activley monitored by anyone because we are basically at the top level ourselves.

4 of the 6 leaders decided to have a very bitchy and nasty conversation in an open space in the office about me. I was just around the corner eating my late lunch. I heard every word. it was about 10 mins long. Anyone else could have heard it too, although to be fair I am not sure there was anyone else. Beside the point, anyway.

I am so hurt to hear those things. My heart was beating so hard, I felt sick and I was trying to decide whether to make my presence known and go for confrontation. They dispersed just as I had decided to move and thereby let them know I was there.

What do I do now? Let them know I heard their conversation?

What they did was awful. Had they done it privately, I wouldn't know about it. I am not saying people can't talk about colleagues, obviously they can and do. Just that it sgould a) be more constructive/professional and b) shouldn't be in an open, public space where others can hear. Or do the adult thing and tell me to my face they have a problem so it can be addressed. What they were saying was just nasty stuff and not an actual thing I have done wrong.

If I confront them, it will be horrible and possibly make things worse. Not sure I have the strength to go through massive amounts of confrontation. One of the people in particular is someone who resolves issues through open combat (perhaps that is the best way?). I shy away from conflict if I can.

Or do I say nothing and carry on with festering resentment and hurt?

There are 2 leaders who were not part of this. I don't want to start getting "sides" going. Do I somehow involve them? How?

HR is an option, but in the office structure, we the leaders are basically above them, so it would have to go the the HR person in Central management. That will cause world war 3.

This behaviour needs calling out, I know that. If I as a senior person can't call it out, how can the junior people be expected to speak up.

But how do I do it?

OP posts:
ICanHideButICantRun · 20/01/2023 21:20

Thank god one of your colleagues has your back. It's a really horrible situation for you and this was the best possible outcome. I hope they have a very, very uncomfortable weekend with plenty of time to dwell on how horrible they've been.

HallwayDoor · 20/01/2023 21:29

The person who reported it is a decent human being and the best possible outcome for you

ImNotWhoYouThink · 20/01/2023 21:31

Totally unprofessional and really awful no doubt to hear. However someone did have your back and thought it was awful too. I bet they’re mortified, they’ve been caught. Back to work on Monday, hold your head up high and let them sweat. Unless they can actually prove some wrongdoing on your part that led to their discussion, you actually have the upper hand here. Depends on whether or not you still want to work with these wankers?

WineIsMyMainVice · 20/01/2023 21:31

MavisTheMonkey · 19/01/2023 20:09

I'm really sorry that happened to you.

I would send an email to the four of them along the lines of:

  • I overheard your conversation at lunchtime
  • I do not think your personal comments about me were an appropriate discussion to have in an open space in the workplace, please refrain from doing so again, about me or any colleague, as it's extremely unprofessional
  • if you have an issue with me on a professional basis please let me know and I will be happy to discuss it with you
  • I won't escalate this on this occasion but if this type of unprofessional behaviour happens again I'll involve our area management team

I wouldn't escalate it- although they are clearly in the wrong as I think as their peer and part of the senior management team you need to be able to handle this yourself in the first instance. Especially (unfairly) as there will likely be a layer of misogyny if you report them where they see you as a whiny female who runs to the boss / HR at the drop of hat.

This is really good advice.

Please make sure that you save the email as well as any responses you receive as if anything like this happens again you have proof that you’ve dealt with this before.

Please don’t ignore it though. It’s difficult but sometimes I think as managers we have an additional responsibility to call out this kind of rubbish, partly to try and make sure it doesn’t happen to someone with less experience in the workplace who might not be able to.

good luck op.

DadBodAlready · 20/01/2023 22:07

WhaleTanker · 20/01/2023 09:38

Thank you all again for your thoughts.

I had a call this morning from someone at head office. It appears I wasn't the only one to hear, and the other person who overheard it reported it, including that I was sitting around the corner and may have heard. I haven't been told who it was that reported it, but I confirmed that i heard it all.

The 4 have been spoken to and apparently are mortified.

I don't know what will happen from here. It's out of my control which is partly a relief and partly a bit scary.

I will carry on as normal for now, I think and see what Monday brings. I am wfh today.

If someone else overheard it, reported it and mentioned you were there and may have overheard it too, you probably know who the person was who had your back. If that's the case may be worth having a word in their ' shell like' and thanking them for having a backbone.

DadBodAlready · 20/01/2023 22:16

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/01/2023 18:49

Glad to hear someone reported it, OP, but I'm a bit cynical about them supposedly being "mortified" unless it's simply brcause they were caught

Clearly you're already being thoroughly professional so there's nothing to improve on there, but I really would keep careful notes of this and anything else which happens in case their resentment of your success causes them to escalate

They probably were truly mortified because ...

  1. They were overheard
  2. It was reported back to head office by another party (and there could be implications vis-a-vis promotion / disciplinary action esp. in todays society).
  3. Fearful it will get back to OP (not realising OP is already aware)
  4. Office gossip
  5. Lack of trust and respect amongst remaining peers and subordinates.

In short their reputations within the company are probably trashed and they won't be having a fun w/e.

Canthave2manycats · 20/01/2023 22:21

I'm an HR qualified professional and while I'm not trying to say I'm the expert here - I'd urge you not to say or do anything until you find out how Head Office plans to deal with this! It's a rotten thing they've done and it is a shitty situation moving forwards - but it's been brought to the attention of managers above your level, so let them deal with it now. Don't discuss it with any of the gossips either. Just tell them you aren't at liberty to talk to them about it.

If you jump the gun now and try to deal with things in your own way, you may find you'll lose senior management support. Keep your powder dry x

AnotherEmma · 20/01/2023 22:25

Canthave2manycats · 20/01/2023 22:21

I'm an HR qualified professional and while I'm not trying to say I'm the expert here - I'd urge you not to say or do anything until you find out how Head Office plans to deal with this! It's a rotten thing they've done and it is a shitty situation moving forwards - but it's been brought to the attention of managers above your level, so let them deal with it now. Don't discuss it with any of the gossips either. Just tell them you aren't at liberty to talk to them about it.

If you jump the gun now and try to deal with things in your own way, you may find you'll lose senior management support. Keep your powder dry x

Good advice

Jerseylaura · 20/01/2023 22:38

To be honest, if this is a corporate big wig company, I think confrontation is fruitless. As someone else said, it'll give them ammo. Knowledge is power, keep doing what you're doing, with the understanding that there are some nasty snides about. Play it to your advantage. Rise above it - I've had some workplace bullying it, and to be honest, I gritted my teeth and ignored it as pathetic as it was. I knew my worth and that what I was doing was good enough, and their problem with me was their issue not mine. Keep working hard and aim for the next promotion so you can get the hell out of that office!

MrsGrumpyKnickers · 20/01/2023 23:25

Thank you for the last update, that really is a good outcome as it was taken out of your hands. How humiliating for the 4 men involved. Good luck to you x

thisisasurvivor · 21/01/2023 04:43

Jerseylaura · 20/01/2023 22:38

To be honest, if this is a corporate big wig company, I think confrontation is fruitless. As someone else said, it'll give them ammo. Knowledge is power, keep doing what you're doing, with the understanding that there are some nasty snides about. Play it to your advantage. Rise above it - I've had some workplace bullying it, and to be honest, I gritted my teeth and ignored it as pathetic as it was. I knew my worth and that what I was doing was good enough, and their problem with me was their issue not mine. Keep working hard and aim for the next promotion so you can get the hell out of that office!

Yes to this

Stay strong OP

SaponificationQueen · 21/01/2023 04:53

billy1966 · 20/01/2023 19:51

Of course they are mortified.

They have been caught.

Mortified means embarrassed, thats all.

They are hardly going to be thrilled to be reported for speaking very badly about a peer?

It takes a particularly strong brand of male entitlement to sit in an open office and say what they did without even the slightest ounce of self awareness as to their surroundings.

They weren't sitting in the pub having what they thought was an office bitch..........which outside the office they are perfectly entitled to......on their own time.

In the middle of an office, where they can be, and were, heard, absolutely not.

Mortified is a given here!

They have shown a spectacular lack of judgement and deserve a dressing down AKA a real bollixing, the likes of which will give them serious pause for thought.

The OP has every right to expect to not be subjected to listen to her character/performance assassination by 4 poorly performing peers that are intimidated by a female peer.

Show quote history

This!!!!! That was so incredibly well put.

Judgyjudgy · 21/01/2023 06:42

billy1966 · 20/01/2023 19:51

Of course they are mortified.

They have been caught.

Mortified means embarrassed, thats all.

They are hardly going to be thrilled to be reported for speaking very badly about a peer?

It takes a particularly strong brand of male entitlement to sit in an open office and say what they did without even the slightest ounce of self awareness as to their surroundings.

They weren't sitting in the pub having what they thought was an office bitch..........which outside the office they are perfectly entitled to......on their own time.

In the middle of an office, where they can be, and were, heard, absolutely not.

Mortified is a given here!

They have shown a spectacular lack of judgement and deserve a dressing down AKA a real bollixing, the likes of which will give them serious pause for thought.

The OP has every right to expect to not be subjected to listen to her character/performance assassination by 4 poorly performing peers that are intimidated by a female peer.

Show quote history

This is so right. They did have some steel balls to do that, and now I think they should have been pulled up because why should they get away with it. Before I was in two minds thinking maybe OP should stay quiet incase there were negative repercussions for her.
I think they're mortified not because they feel bad about it, but because they got caught. I'm so pleased someone else reported it, karma does play out!
So happy for you OP!! 🤗

TinyTee · 21/01/2023 08:31

Easy for me to say, but please don’t just brush this under the carpet. It needs calling out. I would suggest:

  1. Writing a note of what you heard. Dates, times, quotes, reactions, who said what etc.
  2. Draft an email to send to all six management colleagues - including those were not present (they will hear about it any way so better they hear it from you)
  3. as others have said - be very clear that you overheard their conversation - highlight the parts that were particularly upsetting so they know you heard it. Call out their unacceptable behaviour.
  4. Arrange to meet with each of the four involved on a 1-1 basis - discuss the issues they raised. Understand why they are hitching. This shows you taking the morale high ground and demonstrating the professionalism you expect from them. It also allows you to tackle them 1-1.
  5. document all of your conversation (email or verbal) that you have with them about it

i think this shows you have acted professionally and constructively to resolve the issues. If WW3 breaks out you will have documented evidence of your efforts.

I hope that helps - please do let us know how it goes.

2021x · 21/01/2023 08:59

Its a shit situation but cliques will always exist and learning how to recognise them and work alongside them without losing your sanity is worth the effort.Its great that you had an emotional response and dealt with it like an adult by documenting it at the time.

The advice I have had for managing cliques is to understand they look and feel more powerful than they are. There is a great advice on the internet if you type in “exclusionary behaviour in the workplace”

If you wanted to learn from this experience and not lose trust in the company you clearly like; then spend a bit more time building up trust in yourself so not only do bitchy comments like that roll off your back but also you feel like you can interrupt them in future. I would only interact with the members of the clique on their own and in a positive way and professional way, even be kind if you can muster it, but companies look down on that behaviour in the end and you will
come out on top.

2021x · 21/01/2023 09:18

I have seen your update and I agree with what the HR poster said and keep your powder dry and find out what the Head Office are doing before you do anything.

Chances are that they are behaving like this to other people too.

Best of luck.

emptythelitterbox · 21/01/2023 09:26

Hawkins001 · 19/01/2023 23:15

@WhaleTanker keep notes of who is who, and when possible begin building a j edgar Hoover style files on each individual

This.

Plunger · 21/01/2023 10:02

Confront them ASAP. My line manager made inaccurate ( untrue ) comments about me at a meeting that only senior staff were attending. I was being blamed for various failures within the unit. Fortunately someone broke confidence and told me what had been said as they thought it was totally wrong. I confronted my manager - he was speechless and had to apologise but all trust was enroded. It took a long time to trust him again. If they get away with it it will definitely get worse and affect your job prospects.

busymomtoone · 21/01/2023 10:26

Hundred miles an hour nailed it - speaking to them either individually or as group keeps no trail and could add fuel to fire. Saying they were overheard leaves then wondering by whom , and also whether someone else relayed it to you. Being calm and professional and as detached as possible shows you know you have the upper hand and that you won’t stand for this in future. I suspect like all bully/ bitchy groups , once called out this might hopefully stop. I’m so sorry for you though - absolutely horrible situation to be in.

Wwyd overheard office bitching session
BabyDriversMummy · 21/01/2023 10:27

This is horrible, unprofessional and unnecessary. It shows a lack of maturity too.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I went home and cried so hard I threw up.

I took my time and, over the next week or so, I spoke to each individual. Calmly. Like I was asking after their weekend plans.

I’d always do so at the end of a 1:1. One guy I spoke to in the Pub at a staff drinks thing. I never mentioned I’d heard the conversation.

Each time I revelled in the look of deep discomfort on their face. Not least, because I could see their little brain ticking “How does she know? Has one of the others told her? Am I the subject of their chat with her?” Their increasing paranoia was priceless.

You’re better than them. You’re smarter than them. Make them squirm. Play with their minds like a Cat with a Mouse.

P.S. One guy made a remark about me which was too crude to repeat here. When I spoke with him I said “you must be careful making laddish comments about female colleagues, you’re overdoing it, which is fuelling the rumours that you’re not into women at all… “ {Sympathetic head tilt}.

GOOD LUCK. COURAGE!!

Mandyjack · 21/01/2023 11:29

Speak to the person who deals with issues or email them and copy in HR and state you overheard the conversation which you thought was both unprofessional and made you feel very uncomfortable especially being a new member of the team.

ThisWomansWorkNeverEnds · 21/01/2023 12:44

I'm so sorry you had to go through this but pleased that someone else has reported it, well done them. I hope they get what they deserve. Someone who is extremely unpleasant, makes it obvious she doesn't like me and actually doesn't do her job well has been temporarily promoted and will be moved into my area. I've worked in healthcare for over 30 years, this individual has only being in the job around 6 years. Not looking forward to it at all.

LoisLane66 · 21/01/2023 12:59

a) Confront head on next time you can see and/or hear them having a confab.
b) Send an email to each of them asking for 2 minutes of their time during Monday's lunch hour.
c) Contact HR central office and start WWlll

Personally, I would opt for (a) or (b) and be quite straight and to the point.
I'd say that I was having a late lunch and heard every word on such and such a day. I'd mention that they obviously haven't the balls to say such things to my face but if it ever occured again then I will make a formal complaint to HR central office and name names.
Take a deep breath, say it and walk away. No need to hear excuses, just walk off. Trust me, they won't do it again and they will know not to mess with you ever again.

LoisLane66 · 21/01/2023 13:38

Pleased to read all the comments and to know it's in the hands of HR central. Good on the other person who heard and reported and I hope the 4 miscreants were roundly given the sharp edge of the HR tongue. This will filter throughout the various levels throughout the offices and serve as a reminder to keep a civil tongue in the workplace.

tattygrl · 23/01/2023 09:23

billy1966 · 20/01/2023 16:41

Are you referring to my post?

If so just to clarify for you, I never wrote that the OP had been undermined in front of her colleague but she may have felt being critiqued by her management peers humiliating.

Their behaviour screams male entitlement and that male entitlement MIGHT spur them to try and undermine her professionally in retaliation for their behaviour being reported and challenged.

Her colleague that reported the incident is to be hugely commended.

If you read again what I wrote, it is framed as a FUTURE possibility that they might try and undermine her, and this is why it is wise to have things noted.

They clearly don't like her and they will like her even less after this has been brought to light.

She needs to protect herself.

"You have every right to want it noted in case their entitlement directs them to undermine you PROFESSIONALLY."

Show quote history

I don't remember who posted it specifically, I wasn't targeting a specific poster - I just remembered reading a comment remarking that OP had now been undermined in the process of someone else bringing the matter to managerial attention. I didn't want to scroll all the way back through the thread to find the specific comment to quote; it may well not be your comment I was referring to.