Wwyd overheard office bitching session

[WhaleTanker]

I work in an office. I am at the top of the management structure in our office, along with 6 other people who are the same level as me. I am the newest member and only female in this group.

We each have our own projects going on which we manage independently of each other, and then there are some office level projects, staff management, recruitment etc that we all do as a group. We are all accountable to central management which is located in another office, but we are not activley monitored by anyone because we are basically at the top level ourselves.

4 of the 6 leaders decided to have a very bitchy and nasty conversation in an open space in the office about me. I was just around the corner eating my late lunch. I heard every word. it was about 10 mins long. Anyone else could have heard it too, although to be fair I am not sure there was anyone else. Beside the point, anyway.

I am so hurt to hear those things. My heart was beating so hard, I felt sick and I was trying to decide whether to make my presence known and go for confrontation. They dispersed just as I had decided to move and thereby let them know I was there.

What do I do now? Let them know I heard their conversation?

What they did was awful. Had they done it privately, I wouldn't know about it. I am not saying people can't talk about colleagues, obviously they can and do. Just that it sgould a) be more constructive/professional and b) shouldn't be in an open, public space where others can hear. Or do the adult thing and tell me to my face they have a problem so it can be addressed. What they were saying was just nasty stuff and not an actual thing I have done wrong.

If I confront them, it will be horrible and possibly make things worse. Not sure I have the strength to go through massive amounts of confrontation. One of the people in particular is someone who resolves issues through open combat (perhaps that is the best way?). I shy away from conflict if I can.

Or do I say nothing and carry on with festering resentment and hurt?

There are 2 leaders who were not part of this. I don't want to start getting "sides" going. Do I somehow involve them? How?

HR is an option, but in the office structure, we the leaders are basically above them, so it would have to go the the HR person in Central management. That will cause world war 3.

This behaviour needs calling out, I know that. If I as a senior person can't call it out, how can the junior people be expected to speak up.

But how do I do it?

So pleased the other person stepped up on this.

@idonotmind Speaking from experience here. I spent years being bullied,harassed and intimidated. Finally after almost having a nervous breakdown last summer I raised it. What has happened to the person in question? Nothing, SLT don’t want to know. Bang on about diversity etc and a big ‘speak up campaign’ with posters everywhere about reporting bullying etc and when you do you feel like the one in wrong. So yes, sometimes staying quiet is the best thing. I wish I could afford to leave but unfortunately I can’t 😞x

Just wanted to say I disagree with a PP who stated that OP has now been undermined in front of the office/other staff. There's nothing weak about someone else sticking up for you in your absence, necessarily. Whoever overheard the unpleasant conversation acted quickly and likely due to their own values and, hopefully, because the workplace culture isn't usually as vile as that conversation would indicate. OP can still respond with strength and dignity and doesn't have to be undermined by someone sticking up for her/standing up against bullying in general.

This is awful. It is a type of harassment check out the equality act 2010, if it’s bullying related to a protected characteristic eg. your sex then it’s discrimination and your company have a duty to protect you from this sort of behaviour. You can take legal action. You need to record what happened and let HR know. Sending best wishes

I agree 100% with both PPs above

100% do not ‘log it’ with HR. Logging stuff with HR is not a thing. HR is not your best mate. It is there to protect the company, and ensure that the organisation complies with policy and legislation as it relates to employees. If you raise an allegation of bullying or harassment they are obliged to investigate it. To not do so could land the organisation in hot water - you could leave and claim constructive dismissal on the grounds that they failed to protect you from bullying, for example. Once you ‘log it’ it is out of your hands. You no longer have any control over where it goes or what they do with it. I would send your email somewhere though, just as a record - a trusted friend or family member, and talk it through with them so that there is evidence of your distress, in case things escalate.

I am glad to hear that someone else overheard and reported them 'on your behalf' let's hope they behave better in future.

Are you referring to my post?

If so just to clarify for you, I never wrote that the OP had been undermined in front of her colleague but she may have felt being critiqued by her management peers humiliating.

Their behaviour screams male entitlement and that male entitlement MIGHT spur them to try and undermine her professionally in retaliation for their behaviour being reported and challenged.

Her colleague that reported the incident is to be hugely commended.

If you read again what I wrote, it is framed as a FUTURE possibility that they might try and undermine her, and this is why it is wise to have things noted.

They clearly don't like her and they will like her even less after this has been brought to light.

She needs to protect herself.

"You have every right to want it noted in case their entitlement directs them to undermine you PROFESSIONALLY."

Really glad this happened actually. Presumably it was one of the other two. You have a 3rd party as proof.. I would have advised you to speak to your direct manager anyway regardless of whether you wanted to take it further. Just in case of further issues.

It seems it's out of your hands anyway. We all bitch n moan let's be honest but time and place.

So impressed someone did the right thing and reported them. Hopefully management will step up and manage them.

I would go for this as a way forward. It lets them know they’ve been overheard and that it’s got back to you, the person they were bitching about. And not knowing whether you know they were talking about you will mess with their heads. Then sit back and have fun watching them try to find a solution without outing themselves.

Sorry, missed the update before I posted. Glad it’s been sorted.

I don't think you need to do anything, @WhaleTanker. Just sit back, let Head Office take control. Most of all, I would caution you against getting into any discussions with them without someone independent also present.

You could suggest mediation as a resolution?

You are in the fortunate position of having a witness who was prepared to speak out. S/he is worth his/her weight in gold. So many times instances like this arise and there are just no witnesses, or witnesses don't want to get involved - and it's impossible to arbitrate where this happens!

You may be asked to consider taking a formal complaint - or the organisation could potentially decide on taking disciplinary action? If they're not performing, this could give the business an 'out' as well....

Did the person from Head Office tell you how this was being taken forward?

I’m really happy to hear someone had your back and reported it. Thank God for them. Sorry you had to hear what was said about you OP. I hope they face some serious consequences. The fact that someone’s reported it and they know that you heard is embarrassing enough. Shame on them

I'm pleased and impressed that someone reported them. They jolly well should be mortified! You definitely have the moral high ground.

I'm glad someone else reported it. Now I think it's important that you write to HR with your account of what you heard, so that it's on record, and there is your account to back up the account of the person who reported.

Did the HR person tell you what the next steps are or don't they know yet? I'm wondering if there will be a formal investigation or further disciplinary action.

Not sure what was said as specifics will matter but it is clearly a HR matter. Right or wrong it cannot be discussed in a public area.

Agree with this it's the least confrontational way of calling them out.
Let it drop then ,but ensure they know that they have lost any trust you had in them professionally.
Colleagues are just that and not friends for a reason

Brilliant, someone obviously thinks a lot more of you than the 4 bitching males; I find males are worse than females at bitching at work, I never realised how bad until I had to manage a team of thirty guys it really was y fronts at dawn it drove me mad when I look back it’s quite funny; but I’m so pleased it’s been taken out of your hands & someone respected you enough to call them out; & so they should be horrified; I hope they all get a good bollocking.

I think I'd wait for some/all them to be in the vicinity again and say something like, "Look, this is horribly embarrassing for all of us, but I was here the other day when you were talking about me and I'm afraid I heard it all."

Await appropriate horrified reaction, then, add something like "I'd really welcome the opportunity to clear up some of your misunderstandings."

I think mentioning how hideously awkward it all is for everyone makes it possible to deal with the situation without feeling you have to somehow put all emotion on hold, which of course is impossible. Good luck

Nip this unprofessional bs on the bud.
Now! Show those misogynistic wankers that their nasty behaviour is wrong. Really. How f-ing dare they? I hope you have someone to confide in, HR is there no matter what level you work at. X

This was my first thought. Also call ACAS if you are in the UK.

Oh darling hope you follow advice and cal them out and good on you xxx
what horrid people they sound 😡

Totally agree. Women have too much going on in their personal lives running households and families and shouldering the mental load to get involved in office bitching. Men are definitely worse at it as they have the luxury of time and low mental loads.

I'm so pleased someone else was disgusted by this behaviour and reported it. It's good to know it's them not the workplace. For what it's worth I agree with posters who say that if there is an apology keep the focus on the men's unprofessionalism.