Wwyd overheard office bitching session

[WhaleTanker]

I work in an office. I am at the top of the management structure in our office, along with 6 other people who are the same level as me. I am the newest member and only female in this group.

We each have our own projects going on which we manage independently of each other, and then there are some office level projects, staff management, recruitment etc that we all do as a group. We are all accountable to central management which is located in another office, but we are not activley monitored by anyone because we are basically at the top level ourselves.

4 of the 6 leaders decided to have a very bitchy and nasty conversation in an open space in the office about me. I was just around the corner eating my late lunch. I heard every word. it was about 10 mins long. Anyone else could have heard it too, although to be fair I am not sure there was anyone else. Beside the point, anyway.

I am so hurt to hear those things. My heart was beating so hard, I felt sick and I was trying to decide whether to make my presence known and go for confrontation. They dispersed just as I had decided to move and thereby let them know I was there.

What do I do now? Let them know I heard their conversation?

What they did was awful. Had they done it privately, I wouldn't know about it. I am not saying people can't talk about colleagues, obviously they can and do. Just that it sgould a) be more constructive/professional and b) shouldn't be in an open, public space where others can hear. Or do the adult thing and tell me to my face they have a problem so it can be addressed. What they were saying was just nasty stuff and not an actual thing I have done wrong.

If I confront them, it will be horrible and possibly make things worse. Not sure I have the strength to go through massive amounts of confrontation. One of the people in particular is someone who resolves issues through open combat (perhaps that is the best way?). I shy away from conflict if I can.

Or do I say nothing and carry on with festering resentment and hurt?

There are 2 leaders who were not part of this. I don't want to start getting "sides" going. Do I somehow involve them? How?

HR is an option, but in the office structure, we the leaders are basically above them, so it would have to go the the HR person in Central management. That will cause world war 3.

This behaviour needs calling out, I know that. If I as a senior person can't call it out, how can the junior people be expected to speak up.

But how do I do it?

This is an excellent suggestion. Keep a copy in a folder, including any replies you get. Do not engage in one-2-one conversations if any one of the 4 approaches you. Insist that there’s either a third party witness or that they put their response in an email. End with a pleasant ‘but thanks for saying sorry/approaching me’.
They will know you mean business and you won’t take any shit

This. Am glad someone else has stood up for you

This plus what Mavis monkey said. Also keep record so if need be you can approach HR.

get 1-2 out of the four to your side. Those who don’t get them to apologise to you personally maybe in writing.

don’t be on back foot. I can imagine the hurt but it’s blessing in disguise.

and HR here- If you go to HR based on how serious the nature of what is being said , they will pay you off and ask you to go.

You need to show that you are not going to put up with any crap off these men.
Do you have team meeting with the other managers and whoever line manages you all?
If yes, without naming them, explain that you overhead a group discussing you and are there any issues with your performance? This will alert your manager to the issue without dropping them in it.
Also point out how managers behaving like this is not good for healthy team relationships (even suggest that maybe there needs to be some team building.)
This will show them 1) you heard, 2) you will not be put down - without being confrontational.
Doing it by email, not as effective. Just make sure your manager is copied in.
Being the only female manager, you need to show everyone that you are equal to them, even better, and are prepared to stand your ground. (I speak from experience.)

Very upsetting for you but good to know someone has your back. Well done that person.

Glad to hear someone reported it, OP, but I'm a bit cynical about them supposedly being "mortified" unless it's simply brcause they were caught

Clearly you're already being thoroughly professional so there's nothing to improve on there, but I really would keep careful notes of this and anything else which happens in case their resentment of your success causes them to escalate

I think who ever reported it must have been sat there thinking “WTF”

It sounds like you are talking about 8year olds and not grown adults. I mean the “sorting things with open combat” makes who ever it is sound like they belong in primary school

Why are these people in a job.
They don’t sound old enough

Was there a ringleader? If so, was it the person you described as combative? If so, I would keep very very close eye on them. With any luck, management are taking action against them . . . do let us know if any of them move on within the next couple of months.

i’m so sorry you have had to experience that, it’s not nice and clearly unprofessional, they should be ashamed. You have a number of options.

• email the four parties involved and suggest you get together for a discussion as clearly they are unhappy with you and it’s not the relationship you want with them going forward.
• approach each one of them individually and have a sensible discussion about how you remedy the fact that they clearly have some issues they want to resolve.
• discuss the situ with your line manager and get some advice.
• raise a grievance with HR.
• Ignore it if it is bitching about you as a person as you don’t give a fuck and it has nothing to do with your day to day job, frankly who cares if they like you or not as long as they work with you to progress what you need to deliver.

While this is a good outcome, I do think there may well be some repercussions. Misdirected anger towards you possibly. That they’ve been caught behaving in an unprofessional manner. They may even think you reported them. so the behaviour may get worse, treating you coldly etc.

If this were my firm, there’d probably be official warnings involved, there’s probably something in your code of conduct, OP? HR if they’re worth their salt will be taking this extremely seriously. I’d continue to document everything if I were you. And as several others have said, pre prepare a response, even if it’s just a curt “apology accepted”.

Still though, this shows you have allies on the office, those men are clearly intimidated about a strong woman who is good at their job. Accountancy certainly isn’t immune from misogyny.
Wishing you well, OP and hope that Monday isn’t too awful. I also wish your “ally” well too, whoever she is. Because she’s almost certainly a woman…

I’m so sorry this has happened, how awful for you, and I hope you’re doing okay.

I tried to put myself in this position to think of what I’d do. I think I’d likely send an email to all concerned parties saying you’d heard what had been said and suggest a meeting with everyone present - preferably in an area away from the office for some common ground, maybe go for a coffee. I’d make the email as matter of fact as possible and say I’d appreciate the opportunity to iron out what has been said in a non-confrontational way. I’d make it clear that conflict is not what’s being sought and if the conversation descends into conflict that the matter will be escalated to HR (I’d also mention you’d been considering going to HR in the first place but decided to attempt to mediate).

if they turn up, great. You can hopefully find a way through this with them if you want to. If they don’t, then you know exactly who to distance yourself from moving forward, safe in the knowledge you’ve done your bit to resolve things.

I’d directly address the issues they were bitching about and email all attendees of the meeting
’it appears that there may have been some misunderstanding of my comments in the meeting of xxxxxx on dddddd. To clarify….
Let me know if you require further information’

also read Paul lencioni on organisational culture on toxic environments as there’s some really key things in there that you may have the ability to influence.

the fact that someone else reported it does suggest it’s not an overall toxic culture. One of the things you learn to navigate at leadership level is how to get teams working together effectively and these are people you need to work with. I’m absolutely not saying you ignore it or let them get away with it, but by treating it as ‘valuable feedback’ and addressing it that way you are providing a route where you can work effectively going forward.

sounds like you’re showing them up and they’re getting defensive. I’d bet the people not included are all performing better than they are too. They see you as a threat who may upset the status quo, hence the bitching.

I’ve been in similar situations on a couple of occasions. I tended to work in male dominated fields.

The second to last job I had, the boss was a real jackass. He bragged about how he had screwed over a guy in his previous position. He was a misogynist creep, to put it mildly. I went to his boss. He was also a misogynistic creep. He said he thought I was trying to get my boss fired. He treated another person nearly the same as he did me. That guy quit. He could be an equal opportunity jackass. :-) When his boss asked me why and I told him, he again didn’t believe me and thought I was trying to get the boss fired. When the sexual harassment came to a head, I called HR that was in another state. I didn’t know it would create such a ruckus. I had hired an attorney by then. The boss’ boss’ boss flew out to deal with the situation. Their idea was not to deal with the jerks doing the bullying and sexual harassment, but to suggest we do a team building exercise. Yeah, no. The attorney and I saw through that. Turns out they were selling off that branch of the company so they paid me my full salary to stay home until they sold it. Then they paid me a settlement.

The last incident, I was working as a dispatcher. There were 2 other dispatchers that were misogynistic jerks. We were supposed to communicate with all other dispatchers when changes were made to schedules. Well, one of them didn’t tell me, but told the other one in shift. One of the senior dispatchers had called in to make sure a load got to a certain place. The guy ended up taking the load off of him and putting it on another truck. None of that was conveyed to me. The senior dispatcher called. I answered the phone. She wanted to know what had happened. As they had not informed me, I didn’t know. So that got them into hot water for leaving me out of the loop. One of them had been talked to previously because he almost got into a fist fight with a driver. So, the dude that almost had the fist fight was talking about me before I got in. He said I was acting like a bitch. That was the final straw there. They fired him on the spot. I didn’t stay there much longer.

I hope this helps a bit. I’m not in the UK, but I think misogynistic jerks are pretty much universal.

Of course they are mortified.

They have been caught.

Mortified means embarrassed, thats all.

They are hardly going to be thrilled to be reported for speaking very badly about a peer?

It takes a particularly strong brand of male entitlement to sit in an open office and say what they did without even the slightest ounce of self awareness as to their surroundings.

They weren't sitting in the pub having what they thought was an office bitch..........which outside the office they are perfectly entitled to......on their own time.

In the middle of an office, where they can be, and were, heard, absolutely not.

Mortified is a given here!

They have shown a spectacular lack of judgement and deserve a dressing down AKA a real bollixing, the likes of which will give them serious pause for thought.

The OP has every right to expect to not be subjected to listen to her character/performance assassination by 4 poorly performing peers that are intimidated by a female peer.

^ THIS ^

Just read your update

what a horrid situation to be in but def good that it’s out of your hands.
do they know that you know?

it must be nice to know that a colleague has your back.

depending on what was actually said I’d hope it was taken extremely seriously

Not sure if confirmed already as only got to page 6 but I am also guessing partnership in a large firm. Yes HR won’t be able to do much without it having lasting effects on relationships etc. I don’t think I can offer much helpful advice but definitely well done on documenting in detail! You may need it in future. All the best.

Typical case of men not being able to handle a woman succeeding where they are failing.

Genuinely pathetic.

I love that you didn't even have to do anything and karma has still bitten them on the ass!!

Put in a grievance go straight to HR or work Union

I agree that their “mortification” is not that you overheard what was said or how it may have affected you, but the possible ramifications and how THEY will be affected. They know that they have been unprofessional. They know their behaviour was illegal.
Don’t allow them the chance to corner you for an “apology” in a corridor alone. Let them know that anything they need to say must be said in a formal email or in a meeting with HR there.

Irrespective of grade I’m sure your office has standards of behaviour that need to be adhered to? Take it to HR. Explain that it was in an open forum and that’s how you heard it and feel that you didn’t feel able to come forward because of the potential repercussions. That or I’m sure you have a boss who you 6 report to? You’re probably doing a great job and they feel threatened but either way it’s not acceptable. Good Luck!

Wow read the update - so reassuring that someone felt the need to report on your behalf!

An issue is the group know they were overheard and are now waiting to find out what you are going to do.
My advice is to look at what was said and one might be they’ve noticed your failure to confront. There may have been things that happened which they noticed you avoided in their opinion because you didn’t deal with ‘as a man would have done, and could have been ‘discussed’ in the pub for a long time.
You have to confront them because they are testing you.
So look at what they said and prepare your response. Anything that was sexist etc you inform them you are reporting to HR. For The rest consider if they have a point , deal with it head on and make it clear any issues in future to bring it up with you face to face in a mature manner, not like a bunch of kids in school.
Dont take it to HR before you have this meeting because HR will ask you what you’ve done about it as a senior manager

I’m so sorry this happened to you. Very unprofessional of them.
Perhaps you could call them into a meeting and ask whether there’s any constructive criticism they can give you (you mentioned you’re fairly new to the team). If they have any points to raise that you think are valid,take note, but if they have nothing to say (which I suspect they won’t from the sounds of it) mention nochalantly how you overheard their conversation (maybe repeat a few things they said). As the only female in the group this is a form of discrimination and it wouldn’t hurt letting them know indirectly.