Cannot forgive my daughters boyfriend

[user1474905027]

I’m being made to feel that I’m the bad person here .. My daughter was buying a property with boyfriend. She had saved and saved and had a good amount .. he apparently said he had done the same - it was an equal share both apparently looking after their own finances. At the last point a few days before exchange he revealed to her he had lost his savings for deposit to online betting/gaming. She was devastated we all were. The house and dreams of their future had gone. His lies for months and months to her and everyone around him came to light. She was angry but insisted she stays with him, loves him and wants to help him. I can’t bear the thought of her being with him now .. how can he ever be trusted.

Our relationship is fraught now. I can’t bring myself to understand her decision. She’s worth so much more. I don’t want to loose my daughter.

How much exactly did he gamble ? The equivalent of a house deposit ? That’s huge, and I’d really suspect long term increases rather that suddenly a one-off.

Could you formulate it to her that in order to help him best she should ask for the details of his spending ? He owes her that at least.

Then just take it from there I would say. Baby steps to not aleniate her.

I’d honestly in the meantime consult a financial advisor with all the general questions yourself, she doesn’t have to know. Until she’s ready (or not) to do it herself.

How old are they ? Bc it would honestly be (ime) a bit more problematic if thirties and early twenties.

I know this approach sounds deceitful, and it’s awful, but what else can you do really except risk pushing her away ? Hopefully if this has been going on for ages she’ll start to see the light and worry a bit more.

I don’t know much about recovery, it’s like everything, for some it works, some it doesn’t, there’s no real way to know. The most reliable indicator is his reaction (is he immediately researching help ? Saying we’ll delay the house until I save up that amount again ? Theoretically with that last possibility she’d see in half a year or so if he is actually doing it…

This is what happens when young women think that they can cure addiction with love. It's so damaging in many ways.

Hope she sees sense before there is a child in the middle of it.

You dont need to be the bad guy here. Apologise with some tripe about being shocked and that being your reaction but you're 100% behind her decision. Spend more time with her 1 to 1 and have her over more so she always knows you are her home.

And if and when finances come up again then signpost her to support services, a bank manager appointment, a mortgage adviser etc who will look at money with them and let he paid professional do the dirty work.

She will take it in more from them.

Because the daughter, rightly or wrongly, needs to make her own decisions and own mistakes and it isn't the OP's place to say what "has to happen".

If she was my family member I would also be advising her to leave, but if she chooses to stay it's important to support her, so that if shit hits the fan again she will come to you and not end up isolated.

Did you bother to read the rest of my post where I said to share her concerns with her daughter? Or did you just not bother and decide to take the one bit out of context that you disagree with and quote that?

It’s awful but be thankful she’s found out now. At least she can, if she’s sensible that is, take control of the finances going forward. At the moment she’s in shock, he’ll be promising all kinds of things ‘ I’ll never dot it again, I’ll get help,for my addiction’ and she will believe him. Thinking her love will save him…
I understand your stance on this, it’s awful, to see something happen to your child, no matter how old old they are, and it be out of your control,to fix it. Believe me I know.

This is really tricky.

Without wanting to project, a LTR in my 20s broke down due, in part, to issues over finances. We didn't get as far as buying a house together, but when we started having serious conversations about it, it was clear that I was bringing a lot more to the table - despite previous conversations suggesting otherwise. That in itself wasn't the issue, but the vagueness about what he had in terms of savings/salary/debt, and the assumption that I would just cover it, were.

My parents weren't aware, but my friends were and they warned. It didn't put me off immediately, but it lead to me asking some more direct questions of my ex. His answers were enough for me to know that the relationship wasn't going to work.

So I would say tread carefully. Share your concerns, but let your DD come to her own conclusions.

Hopefully before there’s a house in the middle of it !

It’s going to be a lot about how OP formulâtes it I think. To be blunt : fakes it.
I agree with the PP who said apologise saying you were emotional from the shock and you’ll always support her.

I honestly don’t think there’s a point in counting on someone who is a little blinded by love to do the proper research herself : I’d just bite the bullet and do the financial appointment without telling her, maybe even reach out to support groups for families.

Just say something like no one should rush into financial decisions after a big upheal, ex lottery winners. Leave the supporting him aspect out of it.

at least that’s what I would do?

Did he ever have savings at all? I can imagine a deadbeat guy not bothering to save then claiming to be a gambling addict for sympathy. Either way he is a liar and not to be trusted but unfortunately for now your dd is sticking by him. Give her advice about keeping her money separate and be there for her when he let's her down again.

I'm not surprised you are distraught. I would be too. What a nasty fucker.

Your daughter has had a lucky escape. You can't tell her how to live her life of course. Just be there and be supportive but this man child has revealed his spots I would say. That is not a small let down. It is likely the first in a lifetime of disappointment.

I hope your daughter opens her eyes.

That’s very true, I hadn’t thought about that aspect. Really great point.

I’d say the DD requesting to see his bank statements is not an unreasonable requirement right now !

OP can gently say she wants to help him too, and to help as much as you possibly can you need to know to get down to the profound issues, or something like that (sorry English isn’t my first language, hope I’m making a little sense!)

He is unlikely to appreciate her understanding, he is more likely to take it as a green light to behave irresponsibly knowing that his girlfriend is a pseudo mummy to him. He can shit the bed and she’ll understand and fix it.

Unfortunately, @jtaeapa's take on the situation is the most likely outcome.

DD is still processing this, & like many young women, believes that this is a one-off 'mistake' that she can fix with love. She is viewing her b/f as essentially the same person she fell in love with - & his problem as an entity which is separate from him. Sadly, this is not usually true. Unless he becomes one of the rare lucky ones who are able to perceive that their addiction becoming public represents a 'rock bottom' moment which horrifies them enough to galvanise them into committing to expert support & behavioural changes, this will become just the start of a pattern of distressing & ruinous gambling-related decisions.

Being angry with the b/f is inevitable OP - but showing that anger to DD will be counter-productive, so seek out support for yourself. You will need to vent, to access information, all while taking care not to alienate DD by displaying your anger. Trusted friends & GamAnon is the place to do that - you need to be DD's rock & not allow your feelings to put her in a position where she feels she needs to minimise or conceal facts from you.

I agree, it must have been such a shock for her and for you.

But I also think it's good that she knows how much you disapprove of his actions and how angry you are that he's treated her like this.

Imagine if the reaction she got from all around was that everyone was OK with it.

She sounds like a very generous, kind and loving person.
If he's been actively lying to her for some time in this way, she might be doubting herself and her own judgment so she needs to see that his actions are not easily explained normal behavior and that it has really shocked people who care about her.
At the same time, I think that you've expressed it now and you have to walk a delicate line here in showing her support and that she can turn to you without any fear of well-intentioned lectures which might make her feel worse and as if its her fault for not seeing through it... (Not saying that you will do that, but she's probably feeling super sensitive and guilty and probably blaming herself too. )

Several posters have mentioned getting in touch with gambling help charities and learning as much as you can about it, which sounds like a really good idea. Hope you both find a solution.

I'm sorry op it's awful to have to stand by and watch especially when you rightfully fear for what her future holds. I would tell her that it was hard for you to see this happen to her as you knew how hard she worked and she's your daughter but you understand that she makes her own decisions and that you love her and will be there for her. Be careful about only trying to see her without him as she'll pick up on that and not be happy. If you can face it try to do both.

I’d also ask if you can attend not only support groups for families, but actually the actual groups from people who have recovered. I can’t imagine them saying no, I’ve worked with them while volunteering with care, and they’re usually lovely people who want to help.

The saying : you can’t really understand unless you’ve experienced : people who’ve successfully recovered can be a great source (for you for now though, I would honestly not encourage DD to do it, she’ll most likely selectively, unconsciously, hold on to only those success stories). That’s a place for his partner to go.

Sorry, that was volunteering with children in care, who’s parents had that problem.

It really gives you insight on their processes to recovery, and if the bf is a hell of miles away from that or not, as harsh as that sounds ( and I’m really a believer that you can overcome it, but also realistic about odds (ex: never absolutely say to a kid it can happen with will, just say the doctors are trying to help and dad is trying his best).

And realistic that something has to give from the person (in this case, detailed bank statements).

I can fully empathise with this. My now husband told me weeks before our wedding that he had lost everything we had - and much more - due to gambling addition. It nearly broke me, both at the time and a few years later when the trauma of what had actually happened hit home. For years it was help, support, getting through the situation and sorting our finances. And then one day, I stopped having a ‘plan’ and being so matter of fact about getting our lives back on track and couldn’t stop the devastation that hit me like a tonne of bricks.

The fact that your daughter told you about this situation speaks volumes. I am incredibly close to my Mum but have never told her about what happened to us because I chose to stay and support my husband - I knew she could never forgive him and I didn’t want to lose her over it. Not having the support of my Mum made it an even lonelier position than it already is. Please support her as best you can, even if you don’t understand her decision to stay. She will need you! We had the support of my husband’s family and my Dad, for which I will be forever grateful - but sometimes you just need your Mum. Know that she will have the toughest time of her life supporting her boyfriend through this horrendous addiction and finding a new equilibrium in their relationship. It will never be quite the same, but you might just find that they come through it stronger than ever.

For those say he ‘chose’ his addiction over her, that is a ridiculously naive statement and you clearly have been fortunate enough not to have your life blighted by it. You do not choose addiction.

I couldn't forgive this, either.

Tell her to speak to gamanon.org.uk/ before she makes any decisions. These are people who have been in her position.

She'll be defensive right now because she knows he's massively let her down. It's not what he's done now that's the problem, though, it's what he'll do once he knows she will put up with that. He'll feel he can do anything he wants.

I wonder whether he ever saved a penny. If I were her I'd want to see his bank statements and I'd look at every time he gambled - time of day, day of the week, etc - I doubt he ever saved a penny, but thought he'd "invest" it in a bookies and make the money that way.

I agree. My son came to me in tears around age 18 as he 'thought he had a gambling problem' as he'd spent all his part time job wages. I remained calm, told him I was proud of him for coming to me instead of letting it get out of hand, and we discovered he'd opened about 10 'freebet' accounts, won over £1k on one, tried to do it again (sigh), chased the loss and panicked. I'm so pleased he felt he could come to me. Max damage was £300 but I was expecting worse. He's 24 now and doing well. I have no doubt video games were a huge part in starting all of this. I had no idea 'loot boxes' even existed then.

You don't have to forgive or forget. But you do need to treat your dd as a responsible, independent adult who can make her own decisions.

You may state your objections once. You can suggest - once- that she keep her money safe from him. You can suggest resources. And you can say that while you might not agree with her decision to stay, you love her and understand her decision and hope that he reforms. You will be there for her if she needs you.

Then let her be an adult. Don't forget it, be wary, don't lend them money. But don't keep making the same, tired point.

Sorry, me again ! Been with children with care for decade+, and as you can imagine addictions are some of the frequent ones.

Id just like to add that my main responsibility was the kids, I was allowed to attend meetings for insight, but I couldn’t tell you the appropriate steps in which order.

I’d do as much as that yourself (GP, groups with actual recovered people (who, as I have said, really do tend to be absolutely lovely), charities, financial advisor).

She doesn’t have to know any of this. I apologise as I don’t know your finances and I have no clue how much a financial advisor costs for example.

In the meantime, just try to be supportive of what is honestly her denial, and hope that one of both of them end up following these steps themselves. At least you’ll have an idea of what on earth they’re doing, by the experience you’ve gained.

Sorry, I imagine this isn’t really helpful, it’s so tough for you

OP - when you have time - & I mean enough time to process your feelings as well as the long read - you might find this thread useful -
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4460396-Youngest-Daughter-in-bits-on-phone-advice-please?postsby=Icecreamlover63
It's 18 pages, but if you click "see all" on OP's posts, you could start with just her 4 pages of updates, & see how events & revelations progressed.

Like yours, it is by the mother of a DD with a gambling addicted partner.
Like your DD, this daughter viewed her partner as essentially the same man she loved, but with an issue which was separate to him.

However, the addiction is NOT separate from him.
It is part of his identity, & (a bit like Gollum & The Ring) will slowly encroach on his personality as the addiction takes over & begins to alter his behaviour for the worse.

Right now, all anybody knows is that he's "only" pissed away his own money.
I doubt DD knows the full story yet. As PP suspect, he could have been gambling for years, & is far more entrenched than a one-off "mistake".
DD needs full disclosure - his bank statements, the savings account statements - so that she can see for herself how long the pattern has been in play.

I hope you find that distressing thread useful, & will be able to show it to DD, along with your reassurance that you understand she still loves her b/f, but you love HER, & want her to be forewarned & forearmed about how events might progress. That you will continue to love & support her, continue to welcome her b/f to your home, but that SHE needs to be fully informed about the severity of behavioural changes that often accompany addiction.

Agreed with the last paragraph, it’s a horrible thing to say, and something I’ve had to work tons on with children in care (I have to admit I had to accept my limits and switch from teens to younger, max pre-teen ; half the teens were already on the same path themselves and I felt powerless, I didn’t have the tools for it)

Something does have to give from the person though. Bank statements are an absolute necessity in this case, or you’re just searching in the dark.
Just need to formulate that to her…

A person I know killed himself when he lost his house through on-line gambling.

His wife would much rather he had told her so they could work through it together.