That schools should not be telling children they are born in the wrong bodies?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11646881/I-asked-daughters-teachers-not-call-boy-reported-social-services.html?s=08

This is so alarming now - just how many children do we think are born in the wrong bodies?

Is this not now just science fiction?

YABU - Rainbows are magic

YANBU - It's brainwashing. No child is born in the wrong body and schools must be held to account.

I wonder what it would be like to think that there is absolutely no question whatever that anyone should ask about that. Ever.

I want to know why? Why have large amounts of powerful people, in government and in the media brought into this so willingly? Why are children allowed to make life altering decisions with very little input? Why are parents being erased from children’s lives simply for raising concern? Why are specific vulnerable groups being targeted? What are people getting from this? Bb

What are the motives of those driving this ideology? What means are they using to get such traction in the halls and studios of power.

Im not one for conspiracy theories but something very dubious is happening

Sounds like what happened to my teen too. Who now struggles around these girls who bullied her mercilessly with their Crucible like behaviour.

Hence me questioning everything.

across the whole year group not all in one classd

Who needs parents when influencers like Jeffrey Marsh are your child's new glitter family?

Yes, that’s what I said. Depending on how many year groups there are in each year, that us several per class. It may or may not be evenly distributed across the classes which would make even more in some then others.

What you think generally about social contagion? They had to ban certain groups from social media because of the element of social contagion that was found and wasn’t there that Tiktok thing over lockdown where lots of kids suddenly developed odd tics out of the blue and kept posting them on TikTok?

how much happier they are living as boys.

How does a girl live as a boy? Specifically? Trousers, short hair, unisex name? If so, I'm afraid I may have been unwittingly 'living as a boy' for some years whilst being a middle aged mother and most definitely a woman.

school, a place where they should feel safe and validated.

NO. School is where children should be safe, not 'feel' safe. Where girls, for instance, should be safe in their changing rooms and toilets without boys of any identity being able to enter. And I don't expect school to 'validate' students - or else they will need to validate those who think Andrew Tate has got the right idea, or those who want to tell their classmates that they're going to hell for their sexuality. School is not there to validate children's beliefs.

Furhermore why should the school betray the child's trust by telling the parents if the child does not want that?

Do you feel the same about children who don't want their parents told their exam results? Or that they were vaping on the football pitch?

The school has a relationship with and duty of care to the child, not their parents

Do you think schools discharge their duty of care to children by keeping secrets from the child's parents? Really?

"school, a place where they should feel safe and validated."

The school is not safe if it is socially transitioning a vulnerable autistic child.

Schools are not there to validate kids beliefs and should be sticking to the facts. It's factually and biologically inaccurate to teach kids that they can actually change sex. A male can't become a female, a white kid can't become a black kid, an old person can't become a teen. We can't change these things no matter how much we may want to. It doesn't matter what pronouns are used, how many surgeries we have, or drugs we take. Encouraging the idea that we have a choice in being a male or a female isn't telling the truth. Simply put it's lying, and surely we don't want schools to be lying to our kids?

YANBU. It’s a lot of social contagion and it’s cruel to suggest to children they can change sex. They can’t.

All they can do is be one life-long medical patients and often have artificially shortened lives because of the effects of the cross-sex hormones. We still don’t have enough data on the long term effects of pumping a human body full of high doses of artificial chemically produced cross-sex hormones.

“Social transition” can be dangerous as it do often leads to medical transition in the affirmation model.

Marsh is very much a risky person. They actively have posted content about how ‘some families don’t understand you like we do’ and the contact them and be part of the glitter family.

This person is a dangerous influencer because this doesn’t get the pushback it should.

Then again, Mermaids were encouraging children to enter discord server chat sessions as well. This movement has so much invested in detaching children from their family and making children and young people feel that their family hates them.

It really is concerning to see this behaviour accepted. There is a word for it, but we cannot seem to say that word on MN without deletion.

www.tiktok.com/@thejeffreymarsh/video/7148976129175489838

More classic Marsh

mobile.twitter.com/millihill/status/1535191853607297024

I mean what are we dealing with here - social contagion, internet influencers, entire friends groups coming out as trans, kids desperate to stop their puberty and to remove body parts, many of whom are autistic, schools changing their names and treating them as though they are the opposite sex, detransitioners with horrible side effects saying they have terrible regrets and women threatened for saying it's wrong.

Did everyone fall asleep?
2023 - what will be the breaking point where parents en masse stand up and say enough?

I hope you don’t mind wanda, I am just adding this article published in the telegraph overnight.

"Teachers are to be warned against “socially transitioning” children who question their gender, The Telegraph has learned.”

“Allowing pupils to change their names and pronouns to match their preferred gender could have a major impact on their psychological wellbeing, schools will be told in new guidance.
There has been growing concern about teachers allowing children to embrace a new gender identity at school, in some cases without the knowledge of their parents.
The official advice, due to be published by the Department for Education (DfE) in the coming months”

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/18/letting-gender-confused-children-socially-transition-could-harmful/

(archive copy. archive.ph/1yWHu )

And discussion started on this link below.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4723286-telegraph-letting-pupils-socially-transition-harms-well-being-teachers-told

The ball is beginning to roll. Whenever we see an action taken in the UK, often after another country has taken that action already, other countries tend to follow. Such as the admission that puberty blockers are certainly not reversible the way patients and parents of patients were being assured by heavily-invested individuals and groups.

What was needed urgently, starting back when the rapid growth of the young female cohort was noticed, was solid and robust research.

I remember reading how “no debate” stifled research, how people were vilified for even suggesting there were issues.
Just like we have had posters on this thread write posts about how anti-trans it is to even have this discussion, how poisonous, how transphobic - the list goes on.

Those posts are just ridiculous examples of emotional manipulation. Because that is all those posters have. There is no reasoning, there is no evidenced discussion behind those posts. Just emotion, polarisation and hyperbole. Just emotionally manipulative posts.

Those posts are a great example of why children and teens are in this situation without the robust evidence driven support they need. It is because of this polarisation. Thinking based on ‘if you are not 100% supportive, you are a hateful bigot’.

Even research papers into the long term health risks to female bodies seem to be scarce. The long term side effects are really unknown still. However, much is known already. We only have to look at the health of the girls and women who took testosterone for sport (knowingly or not) For females, the risk of transition is huge. We also hear about the health complications from the detransitioners.

There are already studies about the very early dementia risks for women who lose their ovaries (for any reason) in their 20s, I hope that more conclusive research will be publicised soon. But it seems to be that the life shortening risks to females is greater than for males and this is rarely acknowledged. Why?

Who benefits from that?

We get told on MN about the women who microdose on ‘T’ for cosmetic reasons. They are not trans people but seem to think testosterone is perfectly safe to use to enhance their ‘look’? This is a ramification of the lack of open discussion about the negative side effects. Detransitioners have reported the coercion within the community to not discuss the negative side effects with anyone. Not even amongst the community.

Who benefits from that?

Of course reasoned discussion is needed.

If this expected DoE guidance somehow has been misrepresented or changes before release, parents and others will still continue the fight. Regardless of the people who will seek to shame us. Accuse us of ridiculous things.

We have to.

Here is another aspect of this issue covered off in the Times today.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dc24e850-9771-11ed-91ab-4070465550ba?shareToken=f6be73b0c64c75f44d7720d201626e58

Because as has been pointed out, the actions taken by the schools and parents could need consideration under any conversion therapy bill. This bill is back getting more discussion. Particularly in light of the Cass report that will be published this year and the interim report released in 2022.

Maybe this will help others who are still in the mode of ‘I don’t mind males being in female single sex spaces or sports’.

Just because you, personally, don’t care, do you honestly feel you have the right to disregard the opinions and needs of other women and girls? That you, as an individual, get to ignore what is now known about the needs of other women and girls and priortise the needs of males?

Maybe this is also appropriate here:

Every journey goes

“I’m kind! TWAW!”
“If they’ve transitioned they can use female spaces”
“They’re saying what to lesbians?”
“What is autogynophilia?”
“You mean they’re saying they actually ARE women?”
“Wait. What laws have changed?”
“I don’t care if you call me a bigot”
“TWAM.”

twitter.com/salltweets/status/1615624765963931651?s=46&t=cwB2MhT1vSN7a6R3_cKXlg

Because not one person on this planet can change sex. Ignoring that many females can accurately sex a male when seeing them in person, seeing them move and hearing their voice, simply means you have priotised males over the needs of traumatised females. If you believe that makes you morally superior, that is fine.

Others will just continue to disagree. And the readers of this thread wondering what the fuck is happening will see your morally superior contributions for what they are.

Agree, and yet I know a woman, a mum, who endorsed this person on social media.
She also started identifying as non-binary herself couple of years ago, whatever that means (and I say it as someone who has always admired gender non-conforming people).

But this is where definitions are so desperately needed.

We need clear definitions of :

Trans person
Gender
Gender Identity
Conversion Therapy
Conversion Practices

When people say that conversion therapy needs to be banned then the knee jerk response will will be 'of course' because conversion therapy, as per old speak, was sleep & food depravation, injecting substances & other physical intimidation. Of course these practices have no 'place in modern Britain'.

In current time conversion practices seems to have taken on a different meaning and afaik the likes of Stonewall and Mermaids have changed its meaning to any kind of talking therapy which falls short of instant affirmation.

This is, in my opinion, to answer @WandaWomblesaurus post last night which asks 'did we fall asleep?, how we have got here. Along with the mantra of Trans Women are Women which is a complete lie. Women are adult human females, and this is yet another word which lobby groups have attempted to change the meaning of with some degree of success.

Lawmakers cannot make laws unless terms are clearly defined. Where they do they are bad laws.

@Helleofabore Interesting. So, why aren't the trans community fighting for more research into medical care and treatment and long term health and futures of trans people who face a unique set of difficulties that no 'cis' person could ever hope to understand... rather than access to women's spaces? Odd.

Yes lifeturns

This is exactly where we get to when we lack definitions and when we accept the lies told by activists and their lobby groups.

We were told back in Hansard nearly 20 years ago that no male would access the provisions set aside for females. We were assured that no male would seek to access women’s refuges for instance. Because no male would call themselves female.

Now we have indeed had males leverage the fact that some people called them women and treated them ‘just like women’ that they were female and should be fully treated as female. In all aspects of life.

That is the result of kindly calling males ‘women’. Some people haven’t realised yet that this has happened.

And some, as we have seen here on this thread, do not care at all.

And some, as we have seen here on this thread, do not care at all.

It is the women who do not care that bother me. I've come across a very intelligent woman in the autism community whose son identifies as a girl. She is a solicitor by profession but she is so blinkered to having her child treated as a female in all circumstances with access to all spaces as though he is female that she has lost all sense of perspective.

She has now written a book about her experiences and she hosts a number of internet groups for autistic families, she uses these groups to also promote trans rights. Anyone who queries any aspect of this, I did from the point of view of autistic girls and women's rights are instantly removed and told they are bigots. She has effectively created an echo chamber in the autism community and it is all about the wonderful sparkly rainbow community.

It is all about her child. it is a bit reminiscent of Susie Green imo.

Well… now that is a very interesting question. And often asked and never answered. Even by the regular transitioned male regular posters that used to be on MN.

It starts to make sense when you realise which people in the trans community hold the power. It is it hard at all to work out. It is the mature males. Just like in the rest of the society. Misogyny is misogyny regardless of the gender of the male serving it up.

And it is only once you start to understand just how little women’s health has been considered that adds another piece of the puzzle. It is only recently that female specific symptoms were published for some major diseases and health issues.

Look how long it takes to get a diagnosis on Endometriosis?

Why don’t mature males want the very best health outcome for female people? Well, to do that would require :

constant acknowledgment that females are very different from males to start with.

acknowledgement that the motivations for transitioning is very different in most females compare to many male people. (Female transitioners have been heavily abused for that suggestion)

and that leads to the lack of adequate and useable definition of what it is to be ‘trans’ and who is and isn’t trans.

And the list goes on.

Bringing those issues to public attention after convincing everyone that you are not allowed to debate, acceptance only, transwomen are women, how would that even work?

But of course, that is only part of the issue.

I think this may well result in some parents of gender non conforming children removing their children from schools on the basis that the school system cannot keep them safe.

I know that there are already a number of trans identifying children who are not attending school from groups that I belong to.

Not hard to work it out. Sorry.