To think stating your pronouns is redundant?

[BridgertonLady]

I’m referring to email signatures. When for example you’re female with an obvious feminine name. It seems a bit performative in my opinion.

If however your name is Michelle and you state in your signature he/him then great thanks for letting me know so I can refer to you correctly without offensive as I would have just assumed she/her.

There's a certain ring of hell that is the she/they he/they special people. As someone with an ADHD mind, I cannot - and will not - process this level of language fuckery from people who are so desperate to feel special they will deliberately disrupt basic grammar & comprehension. You don't own language, we share it. You don't get to mangle its purpose and usefulness because you have a brittle and inflated ego.

I will not comply with someone's religious belief in gender.

Still, I must admit, I do find the performative pronoun announcements in any environment a helpful indicator of general twattery or lack of critical thinking skills.

This. Why get worked up about it?

Well done on depriving a charity due to your own prejudice.

I deprived one charity of my money because they were promoting an ideology I don't agree with and was completely unrelated to their mission and gave the money to another charity which was more deserving in my opinion. I don't give my money to businesses who conduct themselves in ways I don't agree with either, is that unreasonable too?

They’re so ridiculous.

If you’re talking to me, say “you/yours”

If you’re talking to someone else about me, say what you like, I do not care.

Having ‘preferred pronouns’ stated somewhere is about the right to control the speech of others and pressuring others to state a political affiliation, nothing else. It’s like signing off emails “Vote Labour” but worse.

I tell you what’s silly- saying he/him instead of just “he”.

We all know that ‘him’ goes with “he”, no need to tell us.

After all, we usually manage to work out to use “his” even though you don’t write he/him/his.

I do like this line of argument, but it’s not true in practice. Imagine Chris and Pat going to see their boss, Sam.

Pat: “Hi Sam. Chris and I discussed his research findings yesterday and we want to talk to you about item 7”.

Chris: “yes, and when Pat mentioned to me that she was on holiday next week, I knew we had to have this meeting today”.

You’re missing my point, which was simply that it is not true that a person’s pronouns are only used when they are not present. Your example seems to suggest that finding ways to avoid them is necessary. Who can be arsed with that?

I'm slightly on the fence - not because of the trans/non -binary brigade but because I deal with a lot of people who have names where I can't tell the gender and its nice to know whether to call them he/she when talking about them - and then it is reasonable to have everyone use pronouns as it becomes a bit them and us if only people with foreign names give pronouns.
However it is easy to avoid using pronouns when you don't know someone's gender - by using their name and it doesn't come up very often.
I now wouldn't use them because of the messaging it gives

It's creeping in where I work. I leave others to it and don't engage coz I'm now old enough to give no shits about what people think. I also don't care how the other people identify.

Yes - titles are really no different to pronouns - a bit of language shared with others that clarifies and ensures everyone is comfortable and pre-empts embarrassing moments.

Weirdly titles sometimes also communicate information about the marital status of a woman, not sure why that’s needed though. Pronouns or the use of Ms avoid it of course.

What do you mean by is it redundant? That suggests it is a going out of fashion thing whereas it seems more the other way. I don’t like it myself and I haven’t been in the workforce much over the last few years but I have seen in more and more on people’s linked in profiles. Generally only on women’s though, I don’t think I have ever seen a man clarify his pronouns. I have noticed that of the women that have done so, a disproportionate amount work in HR.

I have worked in international companies since the 1990s and yes sometimes I didn’t know the sex of my Japanese colleagues, but I really have never needed to and in any case when I have found out somebody was a different sex to the one I had assumed, it was no big deal at all.

Several people at work have their pronouns on their signatures. I'm very (silently obv) judgy about it. It makes me think they're either not very bright or easily lead.

I work in a place where I have to interact with people from all over the world via email. Someone's name might be really common in their home country and sound really obviously male/female to anyone from their country, but to me, I often haven't heard it. I also usually don't speak their language and it isn't always the case that the way the name sounds gives away whether it's male or female (Chinese names, for example, I often can't tell by looking at the name whether the person is male or female). I'm always very grateful when people put their pronouns, just so I don't make an embarrassing mistake, nothing to do with gender identity.

I also work with a woman, who was born a woman and identifies as a woman, whose name is Evan. Apparently this is a common female name in the US, but I'd never heard it and if she hadn't used pronouns in her sign off I would have presumed she was a guy (first "met" her while working from home via email).

I personally don't have my pronouns in my signature and, again, because I often work with people from around the world who can't tell of my name is a male or female name, I often get called "Mr" or "sir" via email.

It is useful. It helps me every day, literally.

Pronouns are rophynol

if I’m writing an email to someone it doesn’t matter what their sex is. If I’m in a meeting, I can see (and even more) hear what their sex is. If they’re not in the room, how can they possibly know what pronouns I’m using

its attention seeking twattery imposed on us by employers desperate to get brownie points from stonewall

Yet again the majority have to change to accommodate the very small minority.

If I'm asked my pronouns I just say I don't have any. If someone wants to refer to me in the 3rd person they can decide.

There's a move to normalise stating one's pronouns. As it's utterly narcissistic to expect people to remember that level of detail about everyone they meet, we should not encourage it. Personally, I do not vote for, give money to or in any other way promote anyone who is so self-indulgent.

I attended an online employment tribunal last year. There was only one named participant who provided their pronouns. This person was clearly trans and listing their pronouns actually reinforced this. They really stood out, and not in a positive way. I came then to the conclusion that they want us all to state our pronouns so they don't stick out like a sore thumb.

And what do you do about made up words, politely called 'neo pronouns'? Would you really say 'fae faer' or 'zey zem' or any of the other manipulative rubbish they come up with?

I won't be playing this game.

Good idea. That surely checkmates any woke employer wanting to force this!

I don’t need to know the sex (or ‘gender’) of my colleagues. I should be emailing them in exactly the same way regardless what sex they are.

I really take issue with the idea of ‘my pronouns’. My pronouns are I/me/myself. If someone is addressing me, they will use my name or second person pronouns (you/yourself).

The pronouns nonsense is about controlling the pronouns everyone else uses to refer to you and to think about you. It’s an attempt to control other people’s perceptions. And I’m not on board with that. How other people think about you is simply not within your control. Asking someone to use something other than the standard pronouns in English creates a burden on them to remember them and is unnecessarily attention-seeking in my opinion.

I don’t care if someone, who has never met me, refers to me as ‘he’ to someone else. Or if they’ve got a mental image I’d me that is inaccurate (objectively and in relation to my self-perception). It doesn’t matter. And that’s not ‘cis-privilege’. It’s the at doesn’t matter if Dave in sales knows my sex; the pertinent aspect of my identity from his perspective (which is in my email signature) is my job role.

The last gynaecologist I saw was a man

There will be lots of women who elect to be treated by one of his female colleagues though. For a whole range of reasons.

Did you know he was a man before your appointment?

Thé ‘male’ form of Michelle is Michel, as evidenced in pretty much every mountain top church in France.

Michelle is a girls’ name ( thank you Beatles).

And anyone with an ambiguous name who wants to people to know if they are M/F can easily address this with an email signature:

Mr Sam Hughes
Mrs Sam Hughes