No not everyone has ADHD

[HobnobsChoice]

My sister in law has over the last few months come to the conclusion that she azxnd her child have ADHD. Which they might well do. Certainly my nephew has something going on. Fine, they get their diagnosis and support etc.
But since reading about ADHD she is now claiming almost everyone she knows has ADHD. Both of her parents, both of her exes, one of my kids, her colleague, her former neighbour.

All she talks about is ADHD, traits of ADHD, effects of ADHD. We literally can't have a cup of tea without it being discussed and her suggesting that Person A couldn't do DIY because they probably have ADHD or that person B can't lock a door because they have ADHD. She doesn't seem to realise that someone can just be crap at something without it being indicative od neurodiversity.
Am I being unreasonable to ask her to stop talking about it all the time and remind her that she is a civil servant and in no way qualified to making such sweeping generalisations. And that it's becoming quite frustrating and boring that we no longer talk about anything else. Or is her fixation on this a sign that she probably does have ADHD and she cannot help it.
(To not be accused of drip feeding.She's in her late 30s, a single parent in a responsible role and never had any difficulties at school or university or home which would typically suggest ADHD according to her parents and my husband (her brother). I am aware of masking but they genuinely cannot remember her ever struggling either socially or academically. She's always been employed in either voluntary or public sector and done well in her jobs.)

@Cuppasoupmonster you're on fire 🔥😁 look at you getting all the stuff done. (I didn't order medication by the way 😬, I will do it later... I've written a post it now).

But yeah, I totally get where people are coming from on the flip side. There are a lot of ADHD and ASD videos (particularly tiktok and FB reels etc) which are quite one dimensional. Lots of the symptoms (mainly in there less severe forms) are very normal behaviours of people in general. They just don't tend to all be present all of the time from early childhood onwards.

I think the time where you start to have a 💡moment is when you realise time and time again that you basically tick every box. Not of the videos, but of the diagnostic criteria. And in all honesty it was FB Reels that initially made me go "Wait a second... That's eerily familiar. DH do you do that/feel like that/think like that?". After he'd said no enough times (and 50% of the time he said yes, compared to my 100%) I then started actual research. Did pre screening assessments etc. Then mentioned it to my therapist. And now I'm here... Putting off actually making a GP appointment. I could pay for it privately but I do fear that it wouldn't be taken seriously (which many people here have confirmed).

If people are seemingly armchair diagnosing from videos... I can see it's annoying. But I feel the best way to combat it is to encourage them to see a GP. If they've not already done pre-screening then the GP should encourage that prior to a referral.

Ahh yes. The old “disability, accommodations and support are a pie and if someone else gets an accommodation it means there’s less for others”.

It’s really not like that. I run autism and ADHD training for workplaces, professionals etc and the one thing that often sticks out is that many of these adjustments would benefit everyone whether NT or ND, because these struggles are so often on a spectrum between “have mild difficulty with this” and “this causes me so much distress and discomfort I can’t do it at all” And often understanding that can lead to real changes in how workplaces are organised and how work is completed, for everyone. At least, that’s how it should be. If someone has difficulty with organising themselves but is, say, great at presenting, then the workplace should have support to differing degrees for someone’s weak points while offering opportunities to utilise strengths, rather than people just going “that person is disorganized”. How does that help anyone, except single someone out and breed resentment? A disability friendly workplace should be good for all.

But good to know there’s plenty of people on this thread who don’t need accommodations to do their jobs, but resent others having them.

YANBU! Talking about how ADHD might affect her or her child is one thing, diagnosing others is something completely else.

I can't count the number of times I've wished people eager to armchair diagnose others would act less confidently and more empathic and listening instead.

While it can be a good thing that more people feel like they can seek an assessment today if they need it, I also wish people who've had negative experiences with being pathologized (privately and by professionals) would have some space. Ironically I feel safer around people questioning the need to diagnose everything...

And if "education" on ADHD and ASD on social media are usually lists of very "watered down" traits and behaviour that's very common across several diagnoses(and also in people who don't meet the threshold of any diagnosis), people who experience more impacting symptoms might be taken less seriously.

Absolutely! We all have things in life that we find difficult. Being NT doesn't mean sailing through with no boundaries, no problems, everything handed to us on a plate. We all have to find coping mechanisms and make adjustments to deal with whatever we find challenging.

This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a secondary teacher who was saying that almost all the students at her school had some kind of special adjustment made during exams, such as extra time or equipment. Arranging those was easy but the problem was with all the parents demanding that their child do the exam in a private room away from the others. The school simply did not have enough rooms or staff to facilitate. This demand ultimately made it more difficult for those students who really needed the adjustments to get them.

It's never black & white, it's all a matter of degree. Everybody has "off" days when they forget things, most people lose things like keys, most people can get distracted. It's when it's CONSTANT, and to a degree that your whole life has been affected usually adversely.

I understand that in this modern age people growing up with all the gadgets we have and expectations to use them will have lower attention spans, that doesn't cover people like me when I was one of the first to use a computer in an entire government department, and mobile phones just didn't exist.

I also understand that there's more pressure these days, especially on women who seem to be expected to now be high flying workers and still take the main load of household stuff. But for some any one aspect of this can drive us to our knees e.g. for me the effort of functioning well at work and concentrating when there were distractions would leave me so mentally tired I would have to rest before starting the commute home every day, then would just collapse in a heap.

A relative gets so distracted and bad at timekeeping that it's virtually impossible for her to be on time for everything. It's not a matter of not bothering or trying, she really would change it if she could as she's been late for or even missed job interviews because of it. So a little different from someone who is occasionally late!

We all go down the odd "rabbit hole" on the internet, but for some including me we can lose literally hours chasing something down without realising it on a very frequent basis.

I'm very much "out" at work with my ADHD, partly because one of my symptoms is over talking, interrupting and sometimes speaking inappropriately. They know this at work, and they also know that in my case they just have to remind me to shut up each time; without the protection the diagnosis brings I would be thought of as rude and inconsiderate rather than having a ND condition - not talking legally here, just the knowledge it's a real thing means people can make allowances.

@Allergictoironing that's one of the other reasons I'm planning to request referral for assessment. Being able to share a diagnosis with work would be a huge weight off.

Fortunately I work somewhere with amazing training so over the years I've done lots of training courses on various soft skills, organisational skills, coaching, motivation etc.

But a lot of my traits come across badly. I've gotten better at predicting some of my behaviours and prompting for them. For example the overtalking. People really do have to tell me to just "stop" sometimes and I'm fine with it. I actively encourage it, but can't give them a quantifiable reasonable reason why I do it. I wouldn't blame people for thinking "WTH, just stop talking, surely you know you've said enough/too much".

It also further pushes ‘NT’ people into a tiny stream of acceptable behaviour, holding them to yet higher standards when this idea that they have a perfectly oiled brain and can cope with all aspects of life with ease is nonsense. It decreases tolerance basically.

I read this bit again and I have to take issue as well.

Three decades ago when diagnoses were rarer and I was thought to be NT I don't think I found my differences were treated with tolerance. That has resulted in trauma and masking for me. I'm sure many can relate.

It could certainly become an issue in the workplace if more of the detailed and gritty work was left to the NT people essentially increasing their workload. This is just the start. There will be an explosion of ADHD in the workplace and I am certain peoples tolerance will be low.

Me personally I was completely burnt out “peopleing” for 5 days of the week, hence I took responsibility myself to ensure a work environment that is a better fit for my traits. This actually involved a complete change for me, but one that has empowered myself. I haven’t had to rely on an employer to fix things for me.

It just seems like good management to me! Give people the tools to do their job and play to their streghts and support their weakness.

@Spendonsend

Where are these managers who do that then? I’m yet to meet one. Actually I am lying I did have one like that over the course of my career. An incredibly rare breed these days it seems, certainly in public sector 🤔.

I've met a few in Local Government. Plus I like to think that was how I managed staff in Central Government too (less opportunity for that in private industry I found)

I've had a mix. I think most people gravitate to work they are comfortable and competent with. Reasonable adjustments dont mean just not doing the job you were employed to do. Its perfectly possible to go through capability procedures if a job isnt doable. Its more things like the person needs a quiet room to do this, or wear ear defenders, or has a longer day with more breaks or is given written instructions, not verbal. I dont think people expect employers to fix everything, but I cant see why you'd want the hassle of recruiting someone new for the sake of a few minor adjustments.

So along with just coping with adhd symptoms we aren’t allowed to medicate for depression either because it’s “trendy”.

it’s a fact that adhd is under diagnosed, especially in women. I hope every single person who has adhd gets a diagnosis. I hope that if it’s not adhd they find out what it is they have. I hope that they are able to find understanding, compassion for themselves, medication if they need it. I hope they find comfort that they’re not abnormal and that there’s a reason for everything they’ve been through in their lives, the relationships they’ve struggled with. If a TikTok video triggers someone to look into it then that’s a fucking good thing. Let’s start diagnosing girls earlier. Let’s spread the word about adhd in women so that we don’t get to our 40s and 50s only just finding out we may have it.

and quite frankly people like misswings can suck it. Nobody seeks a diagnosis because they’re a bit disorganised and if adjustments need to be made for ND people in workplaces so be it.

I mean one of my reasonable adjustments is having a stopwatch on my desk. It's a visible reminder of time passing which is invaluable in my role. Takes no additional time and has actually improved my productivity. Another is a buddy system to keep on task which was so useful it's been rolled out team wide to help with team morale and productivity. My boss wants me to do well.

@FloorWipes ’trauma’, really? That’s such an extreme word. It feels like all words have lost their meaning because it’s all ‘you feel how you feel’ and ‘don’t minimise me’.

I’ve had some pretty shocking things happen to me and been very depressed. I still wouldn’t say I’m as traumatised as somebody fleeing a war zone.

All nuance has been lost in our quest to be ‘inclusive’ and make people feel ‘validated’.

@Mylittlesandwich

Why did you have to go through your boss to get a stop watch on your desk? Would that not be allowed? I’ve often put the stopwatch on via my Fitbit at work but I wouldn’t have thought it was necessary to go via my boss for a strategy as simple as that. Infact I’ve been asked once before in an interview what are my strategies for organising my time employers really appreciate practical answers. I am glad your boss wants you to do well. I don’t think my last boss could have gave a shiny shite in all honesty.

Not where I work, no, all electronic devices including smart watches have to be locked away while at work. As my manager is aware that this is just a digital stop watch with no other functions it is allowed. Questions would have been asked if I just wandered in with an electronic device with no prior discussion.

Words havent lost meaning but you appear to be confusing the word trauma with the condition PTSD.

It's ok though as you have clearly demonstrated that you are far from an expert in this area.

Speaking of reasonable adjustments at work. I wonder if maybe this has been an issue in your place of work @MissWings ? It's definitely not reasonable for anyone to effectively opt out of the job they were hired for, which sounds like what you're describing.

In my line of work some reasonable adjustments for me would be:

• Accessible social events where you aren't pressured into participating.
• Being able to wear headphones/ear defenders without it being seen as rude or antisocial *Being able to note things down / not make eye contact whilst talking to someone without it being seen as rude or antisocial
• People feeling comfortable telling me to basically "shut up" if I get over excited whilst speaking and not assuming bad intentions on my part.
• Occasionally having to do additional work from home days that would ordinarily be work from office. This one's probably the least reasonable and is the only one that's led me to wonder about requesting one of our new fully WFH roles instead of my current hybrid role.

But generally I'd say all the things are relatively minor in the grand schemes. I can still do everything my job requires. It'd just make me much more effective to have a reason to be able to do certain things without it being perceived negatively. And I'm focusing on the negatives here, sometimes a particular thing at work peaks my interest and I'm straight into hyper fixation mode and will absolutely smash it out of the park. Downside... I literally bring it up at every work meeting. 😅

It isn’t though. ‘Traumatised’ is an extreme word and not something applicable to more minor irritations or upsets in life. One day this is all going to implode and we will realise our obsession with introspection and labelling everything was the wrong thing to do.

@Curiosity101

They sound very minor and quite clearly reasonable. I guess what is reasonable and what isn’t is down to the employer. We do have one lady who can never come in to the office, does not have to input data at all on excel or write lengthy reports (which to be honest it probably quite a large part of the job). It certainly does piss many members of the team off because it increases their workload. Boss is a bit scared to challenge it as doesn’t want to come across as ableist.

Ive also worked as an IPS employment specialist where I have worked with employers on reasonable adjustments for people with MH conditions so I certainly see the value in it. Often, the adjustments are perfectly reasonable and it can work very well. Other times it over steps the line and the employer is actually quite afraid and they feel out of their depth. It can definitely disturb team dynamics but I fear if it becomes too saturated in society then yes the tolerance that is there at the moment will go.

It's just the technical term used in therapeutic settings to describe the type of repeated emotional injuries some people have experienced that can lead to laterally massive trauma based responses in daily life that are challenging to alter. It can happen to anyone. No war zones required.

Sorry the word "massive" is some weird autocorrect addition.

@MissWings I reckon I have a different theory. I don't expect these diagnoses will become saturated in society. But I do think they will continue to increase in number, and that with more understanding and more adjustments employers will get much better at handling them in the right way. Therefore tolerance will potentially be lower, but almost lower in the right way? So there will be a number of easy access tools and more standard tool kits to help people make the necessary adjustments and in the cases where necessary adjustments can't be made, there will be tried and tested methods of highlighting that to the employee.

I'm a people manager (shock horror, I know! But like I said... I've done a lot of soft skills training). So I agree that it's something that can be tricky to handle and I've seen a lot of managers not actively handling it. I can think of a few people off the top of my head over the years where you know deep down that neither the company/manager or them can think of reasonable adjustments. So realistically they're not currently able to do the job. The only route we have available as a manager is going through PIPs or similar and it's a really grey area if their are accessibility/MH concerns to consider. The more knowledge and understanding in this area (which comes from more people needing it), and the more robust and easy it will be to deal with.

Your situation sounds rubbish though. I can see why that would be frustrating but it does sound like the issue is potentially with your workplace and management.

👏👏👏
Theyre now thinking that the male ADHD trajectory is it starts in childhood and then 2/3rds it goes remission, probably because it’s being successfully treated in many boys. However, for girls, they are now thinking most ADHD isn’t “missed” in childhood but actually develops in adulthood, commonly in middle age. So actually we are seeing that sex matters in terms of ADHD.