No not everyone has ADHD

[HobnobsChoice]

My sister in law has over the last few months come to the conclusion that she azxnd her child have ADHD. Which they might well do. Certainly my nephew has something going on. Fine, they get their diagnosis and support etc.
But since reading about ADHD she is now claiming almost everyone she knows has ADHD. Both of her parents, both of her exes, one of my kids, her colleague, her former neighbour.

All she talks about is ADHD, traits of ADHD, effects of ADHD. We literally can't have a cup of tea without it being discussed and her suggesting that Person A couldn't do DIY because they probably have ADHD or that person B can't lock a door because they have ADHD. She doesn't seem to realise that someone can just be crap at something without it being indicative od neurodiversity.
Am I being unreasonable to ask her to stop talking about it all the time and remind her that she is a civil servant and in no way qualified to making such sweeping generalisations. And that it's becoming quite frustrating and boring that we no longer talk about anything else. Or is her fixation on this a sign that she probably does have ADHD and she cannot help it.
(To not be accused of drip feeding.She's in her late 30s, a single parent in a responsible role and never had any difficulties at school or university or home which would typically suggest ADHD according to her parents and my husband (her brother). I am aware of masking but they genuinely cannot remember her ever struggling either socially or academically. She's always been employed in either voluntary or public sector and done well in her jobs.)

@WalkthisWayUK I suppose the argument against measuring severity is that you have to measure all of the different aspects of the condition by severity. The cancer analogy doesn't really work as it is either spreading or decreasing. Whilst, as I'm sure you're aware, with adhd there can be varying aspects of it which effect each person more or less. There is the sensory side, the concentration side, the emotional regulation/ impulsive side. If someone was very disregulated in one area but fine in another, would they be trumped by someone who mildly suffers in both aspects?
Then there is the cognition side which isn't overly popular to mention. My DD struggles academically, to the point where she has some very severe delays in certain subjects but is at age appropriate level at others. So who can say if it's the adhd aspect which impedes her learning (which is the schools argument) or whether she just cognitively can't comprehend the lesson (my honest opinion).
The problem is that a person isn't just a diagnosis. There is a whole host of factors beyond 'adhd' which is often missed by the newly diagnosed brigade. I must add that it really annoys me how every self diagnosed person is very quick to tell you that they're sooo well educated. Where is the awareness for those with LD? When is that going to become sexy?

I find it quite telling and quite sad that LD are the one diagnosis no one is in a rush to self diagnose. No one wants to have LD, there isn’t a big ‘if you do X, you may have LD’ on social media, there are not twitter brigades. All I see are those with ADHD or other diagnoses distancing themselves completely from LD as if it’s shameful, by saying that LD is nothing to do with ND, that it is separate. It’s ableist and discriminatory. There are so many people with LD and I do think they are being crushed under the weight of more ‘sexy’ diagnosis I agree. When are we going to become a better society where those with LD are completely accepted, adequately supported and helped? Where their voices are heard?

I don’t see it. I would really like us to be more accepting and tolerant, and go everyone including those with LD the best opportunities, as others have.

WalkthisWayUK Such a good point and the same for mental health conditions too, there are definitely ‘sexy’ (good way of putting it) diagnosis of Anxiety, depression, and even OCD (though lots of misunderstanding of what forms it can take especially on SM). You don’t hear a lot of of people admitting to bi polar, and even less so schizophrenia. I have a close relative with bipolar and they don’t disclose it to anyone. They were told by the consultant to be very careful about disclosure. Awful in this day and age where we are supposed to be so accepting of MH conditions.

I think there is a trend for people to want a diagnosis or label of some kind these days. It seems that this can be a way to explain or excuse certain behaviour or to avoid criticism or certain situations. Sometimes people want answers and there are none, sometimes people just need to take responsibility for their actions or behaviour but it is far easier to blame something else. So many of DCs friends have self diagnosed anxiety or ADHD and it is really difficult for schools to handle all of this. They cannot be dismissive yet they do not have resources to handle it all. While it is great that these things re being recognised there is also a danger that resources are being stretched and those genuine cases are not getting the help needed.

@User98866 personality disorders are especially misunderstood.

How many people do you imagine get as far as assessment because they have done all the pre-screening and convinced a GP to refer them, who don't have ADHD?
I would have gone through the ore screening when I was at the worse if the menopause. Ironically, one alternative treatment to the menopause officially recognised and that GP can prescribe is a treatment for ADHD. There is evidence that it can help menopause symptoms.

I'm now much much better although still have symptoms similar to ADHD.

It's not about the symptoms. It's about the cause of it. Very few, including professionals know how the menopause can trigger a multitude of symptoms beyond hot flushes. That and poor sleep quality. Sleep apnea will also exhibit a number of similar symptoms.

So once again, how many private patient are told they suffer from ADHD rather than another condition that causes similar symptoms?

Just like people being diagnosed with anxiety and depression and finding out it’s actually adhd

Great points! Even though many different conditions have been presented in a more neutral or positive light, people diagnosed with psychosis or schizophrenia still often face stigma today.

And even ADHD and Aspergers weren't always treated as "cool". People diagnosed about 15 or 20 years ago might have been treated very differently than people diagnosed 2020 or later. It's very, very diffcult to relate to a lot of the current discourse, that's all I'm saying...

@User98866

You are right. I spent a year in post as an IPS employment specialist. So I was integrated into NHS clinical mental health teams. I was assigned to the team who overseen people in secondary care suffering from severe and enduring mental illness. So typically psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar. My role was to assist those who wanted help or guidance in either retaining their current job position or perhaps looking for another suitable job role that would enable them to have a smoother recovery.

We would have to give the pros and cons to people if they were wishing to disclose their mental illness to their employers. Generally anxiety and depression wasn’t at all too troublesome but disclosing a psychotic disorder to an employer certainly did bring some huge disadvantages to the employee and this is despite of reasonable adjustments and the equality etc etc. There’s a lot of noise about breaking stigma but really the surface has only been touched. People feel okay to discuss things like depression but many employers will heavily stigmatise a person who suffers from psychosis. It’s like only some mental health conditions are acceptable in society.

I fear that the overdiagnosis of the ‘cool’ diagnosis means that there is more stigma, not less, or those that are seen as more troublesome or ‘scary’. I find it quite disturbing that in the neurodiverse communities, that learning disabilities are very much seen as ‘other’ and talked about as being entirely separate from ADHD or autism. When in fact learning disabilities and ADHD/autism are strongly linked. Whereas anxiety, sensory issues, hyperactive are all talked about frequently as being part of neurodiversity. So some traits are ‘in’ and some traits like LD are ‘out’.

@WalkthisWayUK, fear no more 😂

I'm not aware of what you've written. Perhaps you're missing understanding the nuances of the language as you've written learning difficulties whereas there are in fact many learning differences. ND brains are wired differently, which means they see, process and respond differently to what the majority - NT - do.

It's also a well know fact that ADHD and ASD rarely travel alone, with dyslexia and dyscalclia being Co-morbidities. Throw in executive functioning disorder, and you'll see the pattern of learning differences.

@vivainsomnia Ironically, one alternative treatment to the menopause officially recognised and that GP can prescribe is a treatment for ADHD. There is evidence that it can help menopause symptoms.

Please name this alternative treatment.

@Oxfordblue learning difficulties would be things like dyslexia, but learning disabilities is often aligned with a lower IQ. I wrote about learning disabilities - which I have first hand of seeing how these are quite stigmatized. It is confusing as many people interchange both terms but they mean very different things.

I’ve sat on neurodiverse groups and gone to events where I’ve raised the question ‘where is the representation from Down’s syndrome people/carers’ for example and been met with completely blank faces, as this is not seen as being anything to do with ADHD and autism by many groups. But it’s very linked. And if it’s not represented, it isn’t given time, resources, energy or a voice. I think that’s stigmatizing.

@WalkthisWayUK I’m not following you?

ADHD and ASD aren’t associated with lower IQ.

Not sure what the big deal about no Downs rep and that would be a question for them - probably a good one. Do you have any statistics for Downs/ADHD?

@Oxfordblue ADHD and Autism have significant associations with LDs.

It’s a big deal if this aspect is ignored because resources, time energy are influenced by what people understand as ADHD, or feel is part of it. And if those with LDs are not represented in ADHD, they lose out.

Estimates really vary about the crossover, this study of 119 people with ADHD found 70% had LD, but in CHADD they report 1/3 to 1/2. Also there seems to be confusing terminologies used by different sites.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15495544/
chadd.org/adhd-weekly/adhd-learning-disability-it-may-be-both/

Again, estimates vary with Down’s syndrome and ADHD. However most do agree that there is an increased risk of ADHD in those with Down’s syndrome, and this study it was at a rate of 43%

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21628698/

@Oxfordblue I think it is you who is struggling to understand. There is a link between learning difficulties and adhd/ autism. Not differences. Why does that make people uncomfortable?

Again this is a problem with those who are 'high functioning' or moderately impacted being the most vocal/ spokespeople. Those who struggle/ struggled at school or with their cognition in general are faced with unrealistic expectations based on what one person with adhd did? It's the same as when Rainman was the idea of autism that everyone had. In the world of learning disabilities (many who also have autism) the idea that autistic people are all savants and highly intelligent is quite disparaging. It's also not the experience for a lot, nearly half of autistic people, with 4/10 also having a learning disability.

It's also about feeling alienated by both sides, if those who are most vocal about ADHD are academic, have good jobs etc, then those who also have LD think 'well I'm not like that'. Plus if the LD community isn't set up to deal with sensory, impulsive, mental health related needs, then that service isn't really designed for them either.

I worry about my daughter already as school tend to blame her neurodivergence for the reason she struggles with learning, but she isn't really suited to share the same provisions with the mega smart autistic kids or the hyper adhd boys. Really others with learning disabilities are her closest friends, and share similar presentations.

@HammergoHammer “I find it quite disturbing that in the neurodiverse communities, that learning disabilities are very much seen as ‘other’ and talked about as being entirely separate from ADHD or autism”.

Why do you find that disturbing?

Also how and why are you the spokesperson for how other people feel about ND?

if you’re concerned for your daughter, then have her assessed by an educational psychologist and champion her at school, so that she receives the support SHE needs.

@WalkthisWayUK the link is 5 years out of date and American, using US terminology.

But, interestingly, it supports what I said

What is a learning disability?

ADHD is not, in itself, a learning disability (LD), but its behavioral manifestations impair the person’s ability to learn.

@WalkthisWayUK another outdated report, this time from 2011.

It does however clearly state,

Clinicians might minimize the prevalence of behavioral disorders among mentally retarded people. Decreased attention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity are frequently reported in children with Down syndrome, yet the exact prevalence of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has not been clearly estimated in this population.

Describing Downs as mentally retarded people?

@Oxfordblue yes it's outdated language, we forget that it was only in 2007, that 'the American Association on Mental Retardation was renamed the American Association on Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities'. Luckily the UK has used much more progressive language for longer.

@WalkthisWayUK what on earth are you talking about with regard to severity of ADHD?
The treatment offered for ADHD is medication, the amount (the dosage) is not prescribed on ‘severity’. A starting dose is trialled (titrated) for an amount of time and the slowly increased until a difference, the sweet spot if you like, is met. But this doesn’t always happen so simply and different medications and dosages may need to be trialled.

Seriously. ADHD does not mean shitty behaviour! This is precisely WHY people need educating about it. And yes, 2 out of 8 people ARE neurodiverse and that includes dyslexia, epilepsy, ASD, dyscalculia etc etc. Some really ignorant views here. Labels sound like stigma. If your child is ND you’ll know how hard it is to get the support they need to thrive at school. It’s not a bloody label! It’s a condition we all need to educate ourselves about. There’s a whole Gen X out there who didn’t get diagnosed so if you’re thinking about it or your child has just been diagnosed, go for it. It’ll help your child to see this isn’t something to hold them back or be stigmatised about. See Sue Perkins, Bill Gates, Tim Burton and all the other wonderful minds and risk takers who have achieved in this world. Don’t tell me about ‘poor behaviour’. It’s discriminatory language quite frankly.