No not everyone has ADHD

[HobnobsChoice]

My sister in law has over the last few months come to the conclusion that she azxnd her child have ADHD. Which they might well do. Certainly my nephew has something going on. Fine, they get their diagnosis and support etc.
But since reading about ADHD she is now claiming almost everyone she knows has ADHD. Both of her parents, both of her exes, one of my kids, her colleague, her former neighbour.

All she talks about is ADHD, traits of ADHD, effects of ADHD. We literally can't have a cup of tea without it being discussed and her suggesting that Person A couldn't do DIY because they probably have ADHD or that person B can't lock a door because they have ADHD. She doesn't seem to realise that someone can just be crap at something without it being indicative od neurodiversity.
Am I being unreasonable to ask her to stop talking about it all the time and remind her that she is a civil servant and in no way qualified to making such sweeping generalisations. And that it's becoming quite frustrating and boring that we no longer talk about anything else. Or is her fixation on this a sign that she probably does have ADHD and she cannot help it.
(To not be accused of drip feeding.She's in her late 30s, a single parent in a responsible role and never had any difficulties at school or university or home which would typically suggest ADHD according to her parents and my husband (her brother). I am aware of masking but they genuinely cannot remember her ever struggling either socially or academically. She's always been employed in either voluntary or public sector and done well in her jobs.)

@MistyLuna

That isn’t new though. Like attracts like. Extroverted people will be friends with other extros. Same with Introverted people etc. Even people with diagnosable personality disorders will be friends with each other (although I think having a traumatic background is the essential common ground there but that’s another thread entirely).

Like I said further up the thread, at what point does it become a variation of normal if whole entire groups of friends have it?

I predict there will be many more people on stimulants in the next few years for sure. They will all ready differently to them of course much like anti depressants.

*react

It's sounds like very typical hyper fixation to me.

I've been encouraged by a trained psychotherapist to seek a referral for assessment of ADHD and ASD. Shock horror - the moment it was suggested I did 100s of hours of research and it's literally all I could think about to the detriment of other things. I also wanted to talk about it all the time, it was on the tip of my tongue / like and itch I can't scratch. It's infuriating.

Like the person you describe I also seem to be seeing these traits in everyone now, and whilst I know logically I'm being daft even considering that lots of people might have ADHD it's impossible to stop the compulsion. I think for me it's that I'm 32 and it's such a weird concept that I've potentially been ND my whole life and just struggled whilst assuming I'm normal. So now it's almost like I'm doing the opposite, projecting that everyone must be like me cause I want to fit in? I don't know... 🤷

I think I manage to keep it under wraps most of the time 😅 (my DH might disagree given how often I bring it up), but it's incredibly difficult and I could probably route most conversations back to talking about it if I'm not massively careful. It makes socialising with anyone absolutely exhausting when I'm hyper fixated on something as I sort of know I have a set amount of allowance to talk about a thing before annoying people, it's just incredibly difficult to tell when people are actually interested vs being polite. And even if I don't say it out loud, I'm trying to listen to the person and I'm trying to stay present with them but it's tough cause I'm still thinking about it. Personally I prefer to avoid people and interactions cause I'm forever getting it wrong no matter how hard I try and it's just exhausting.

Long story short. YANBU to be frustrated, but if she does have ADHD this is a very common symptom she's displaying and I'd probably be more likely to go with the assumption she has got it and ask if she feels she might be hyper fixating right now. Making her conscious of it in a caring way (she might not be aware right now). And then maybe you can help to steer her away from it in conversations. It won't stop her obsessing in her head, but might make it a bit more manageable for people around her. Maybe ask her more about herself and ADHD with respect to her (rather than her opinion of others). At least then it won't be as frustrating cause she'll probably rattle off 100s of things she does which align.

The irony of my entire day and possibly week being a shit show due to ADHD related issues yet Mumsnet informing me that I couldn't possibly have it because I survived to 30 without a diagnosis is not lost on me.

@Curiosity101

That is surprising that a psychotherapist suggested a referral. They work psycho analytically (well a lot of them do). It’s unusual for them to be “diagnostically minded” so to speak. They never really seek to attach labels to people, although I think it depends on their modality and how they’ve been specifically trained. I have heard that a lot of their course content is still very biomedically focused.

I know I would be quite irritated by a friend who was trying to suggest my “traits” were ADHD. I would be happy for her if a label is what she wanted, however I wouldn’t appreciate it being pushed on myself. I am sure I could tick many of those boxes, but couldn’t we all. What even is normal?

@MissWings She didn't say 'I think you have <x>". I broke down about a family trip we were meant to be going on and said "I'm starting to wonder if I have <x> as it aligns so much with all these things I struggled with as a child and continue to struggle with" she agreed that she could certainly see similar and encouraged me to visit the GP and request a referral. It was the 'official' validation I needed to give me permission to go to the GP. But I've still been putting it off cause I'm literally terrified that (much like many people have said here about friends and family) the doctors will tell me I'm normal and that there's no explanation for why I've found life so hard up until the point.

I've started using some of the techniques that are suggested for managing my worst symptoms (prior to seeking any diagnosis), as I figured diagnosis or not if I can start to help improve things for myself then all the better. And even if I was diagnosed, there's part of me questioning if I really do want to go on medication. Basically I'm just terrified one way or another. If they say I have ASD and/or ADHD it's basically tipping my understanding of myself on its head (I kept telling myself I was normal, other people didn't struggle like this and I just needed to try harder). Or they say I don't have it and actually I do need to just 'try harder', 'chill out' etc, but I've been trying to do that my whole life and nothing has improved. Quite the opposite.

It's not so much about what even is normal as a few PPs have asked, but that the world is set up for pretty much the opposite of what many ND people experience.

I can't help thinking that a lot of the comments are from people who have no idea what it's actually like to go through your whole life trying insanely hard to do things that others around you seem to find effortless (and I'm talking about things like stacking the dishwasher or making an appointment or starting a work task, not becoming a world class ice skater) and it taking pretty much all your energy, and you just can't see how others are managing it. When you feel odd and outside and other and broken/wrong your whole life and then suddenly the explanation ticks every damn box of your (mainly concealed) struggles, it's absolutely massive to process.

But I wouldn't expect someone who hasn't been through a similar process to understand really.

@hilariousnamehere

How do you know other people do not have their struggles? Quite the assumption. Even with my own difficulties I still do not feel the need for a diagnostic label to understand myself or validate myself. If a diagnosis is what people want or need in order to feel less broken then good for them but it’s ignorant to just assume we all go about our daily lives finding everything easy. I guess it comes down to how you feel about the “diagnostic process” and the validity of anything that you were diagnosed with. For me it would be utterly pointless as I don’t truly believe in a “professional” knowing more about myself than me.

I have my own idiosyncrasies, traits and struggles but no I don’t need validation from a diagnostic label. Neither do I want to ingest the current medicinal trend. It seems like every man and his dog has been on at least one anti depressant and now we may need to start adding stimulants into the mix. To me that is not empowering, quite the opposite, but each to their own.

@MissWings of course everyone has their own struggles - but actually I think you've hit the nail on the head, that some people find a diagnosis and meds helpful and some don't.

@Curiosity101 there are plenty of ADHD self assessment (note NOT "diagnostic") questionnaires on line. Many people start with filling one of those in and seeing what sort of results they get before going to their GP and asking for a referral, you may find that a path to try.

I wasn't diagnosed until I was 60. My brother (10 years younger than me) paid for a general (not specifically for ADHD) private consultation with a psychologist, who diagnosed him as having ADHD. He did the typical ADHD thing of researching it for hours and hours, and then suggested to me I might consider it for myself. After doing the on line questionnaire, one from the GP then a very detailed interview with a psychologist, I too was diagnosed scoring very highly on both aspects, higher even than my DBro. DSis is almost definitely ADHD but just on the inattentive side, but isn't concerned about diagnosis.

Diagnosis was a game changer for me. Not just being prescribed the meds which have made a massive difference, but in the understanding that, as many pp have said, I'm not stupid or bad or rude or lazy, it's the way my brain works.

I failed at school probably because of the ADHD, and though I had a decent career it was a daily struggle to do things. I developed a number of coping mechanisms, but eventually the stress of trying to cope led to breakdowns and chronic depression. Now not only do I know my limitations, but I understand why, so I'm more content about not having the glittering career some of my friends have.

@hilariousnamehere that’s it isn’t it. Some people will find meaning in a diagnosis and that framework and are greatly helped by medication if appropriate. Some will not find meaning in it, will not like it, and won’t want to take medication or they find the side effects intolerable. I guess from my perspective in working and living with this, it’s about whether we can hold space and be curious about another’s experiences and help them understand and support themselves how it works for them. I equally roll my eyes at the hardcore medical model “you have a disorder that needs a fix” and the Drop the Disorder crowd in my line of work, because it leaves no space for nuance or personal experience, or even contradiction. Everybody has to fit their particular model or dogma, whereas human experience is far more complicated than that. “Nobody needs a diagnosis ever” is every bit as restricting as the idea that diagnosis is the only framework we can understand neurodiversity with.

I'll second the over reaction there. What on earth led you to conclude that OP is ableist? Her issue isn't around who does/doesnt/might have ADHD or even how its managed and received......
It's about her sister having a bee in her bonnet becoming obsessive about the topic in general and quite frankly becoming a tiresome bore.

@Allergictoironing Thanks, I've done all the reputable pre screening tests for ASD, ADHD and also masking ASD. AQ10, AQ50, RAADS-R (unnecessary really given my AQ10 and 50 results), CAT-Q, ARSR-5 and ESQ. I even got my DH to do a few cause "surely everyone would get this result"

But no... Taking AQ50 as an example he scored 16, I scored 38. Similar story for all the tests really. Big clear signs suggesting I should request a formal referral, but I'm scared and it's holding me back. Not to mention I really do struggle with executive function. I can do 100s of hours of research come up with several viable decisions and then not actually action any of them. 🤷

Wow. This thread has been eye-opening.

It's ironic that those experts on this thread are at pains to highlight the "over-diagnosis" of ADHD against those who have had a formal diagnosis from a psychiatrist, likely one who specialises in ADHD.

Going back to PPs who "diagnose" those they know with it, I'm the same (not that I tell them, unless they disclose to me first). I have a really big family and, as it's genetic, I have thought long and hard about where it's come from. I haven't seen any signs on 1 side of the family, but I suspected the other. My family tree research confirmed it as it put me in touch with a grandparent's birth family, who previously we never knew existed, they confirmed ND on that side.

I can't tell you how much my life has improved since my diagnosis. I was going to list the ways but what's the point, those who have been through it understand. The others will likely not even read it, or will while rolling their eyes.

And to the PP who said the diagnosis was likely an "over-stimualtion" diagnosis in the current climate, well, that is frankly laughable.

Sounds like she’s hyper focused on the ADHD or that it’s become her special interest (maybe both?).

Annoyingly this happened to me when I was first diagnosed, it’s quite normal but very annoying for everyone else.

Tell her you’d like to curb the ADHD chat a little bit, it’s okay to talk about it but not 24/7.

Though just a heads up your last paragraph about the school and masking etc is very invalidating and borderline rude. I don’t think you meant it to be but it reads almost as if you don’t believe her? Perhaps don’t mention that to her because it’ll not go down well.

I can't help thinking that a lot of the comments are from people who have no idea what it's actually like to go through your whole life trying insanely hard to do things that others around you seem to find effortless

But nobody does find everything effortless. Unless they have so much cash they can afford a dog walker, nanny and cleaner. Thats my point. Our mental workload has tripled in about 30 workload thanks to technology and women working much more while juggling everything else. Look at all the ‘overwhelmed with housework’ or ‘exhausted, I do so much’ type threads.

This ‘NT people find life easy and if you don’t it’s because you’re ASD/ADHD’ isn’t just a nonsense, it’s actually quite offensive. Everyone has things they’re good and bad at, it’s about playing to your strengths and improving where you can. You don’t really need a diagnosis for that, just to work out what helps and implement it. For me it’s rigid diary keeping, phone alarms, thinking ahead (I have to remind myself to do this with an alarm once a week!) etc. It took about 5 years of slogging away at it but I got there.

For example I totally forgot it was PIL’s anniversary today, I’ve just dropped some flowers round. Just set a yearly phone alarm (yep, really) to remind me next year. Not just that but also an alarm on the day and 1 week before. That will hopefully be enough to remind me to send something in advance next time.

@hilariousnamehere

Some people may find a diagnosis comforting but I guess it could potentially become quite grating, particularly in work contexts and reasonable adjustments etc. I’m all for helping people at work but at what point does it just become an excuse not to participate in certain activities at work? If you’re protected by an official diagnostic label your employer has legal duties to implement certain adjustments but I see this in my line of work and it can often morph into an expectation that this person will be treated differently, despite many others no doubt having the same struggles as that Individual.

You can already see it on this thread, the very moment you start questioning a narrative you get called out instantly for being “ableist”. Is this the new mental health “stigma” but we’ve all kinda moved on to adhd? This is just the beginning, I’m thinking a whole load of young people are going to be convinced there somewhat broken and that is sad. They’re not.

This is it @MissWings - a diagnosis confers certain rights and treatments that other people don’t have, so the difference in ability needs to be significant and not just ‘I find X or Y difficult’ in the way that everyone struggles with something. And there are degrees of disability, despite someone always accusing me of ‘minimising’ when I say that. I’m type 1 diabetic, no meds and would be dead within 3 days, have about 1 hypo a day which puts me out of action for about 20 minutes. 7 injections a day, some other unpleasant side effects and lifespan is probably about 10 years reduced. Okay it’s not pleasant. But I’m not as disabled as somebody who cannot walk, or has one hand, or cannot speak. Equally the fact I’m disorganised and find task management/completion challenging is nowhere near as ‘disabling’ as the diabetes. It’s more a personality deficiency which I’ve had to work on, and continue to work on, but then life is challenging isn’t it?

How do you know other people do not have their struggles? Quite the assumption
Exactly that! Reading all the reasons why people feel they have ADHD and the confirmation of a diagnosis, I am myself thinking I probably have it. So what! It doesn't stop that I have to make efforts to not let it impact on me and others negatively.

Many struggle with one thing or another and have to make efforts to overcome it. Anxiety, depression, sleep deprivation, obesity, anorexia, IBS etc....

What Is love to know is how many people get tested and get a negative result, especially when paying privately. I bet much more people getting tested get a diagnosis of ADHD than confirmation they don't. It can be a self fulfilling prothecy.

This ‘NT people find life easy and if you don’t it’s because you’re ASD/ADHD’ isn’t just a nonsense, it’s actually quite offensive.

I definitely agree with that. I think people need to reframe and keep to statements about themselves rather than trying to generalise about others. Even a lot of people with tonnes of money probably still struggle with things and don't find things easy. That really is just life.

But... as someone who is suspected ADHD but not diagnosed and using your example... You have effectively described what I've done my whole life and one of the many coping strategies that show why on the face of it people would have no reason to expect there's anything different about me. I have alarms/reminders/post it's/lists for everything. But if I don't respond to the alarm immediately (and I do mean immediately) then I will turn it off and immediately forget it went off and that I need to do something. Real example: my alarm goes off for my medicine that I'm meant to take every morning at 7.30am. 'Oo, ok medicine time'. 'Oo look a bird' (looking at the window on the way to the bedroom). Arrive at bedroom 'Hmm, why am I here?' 'Crap... It feels like it was important... Oh well, hopefully I'll remember ' and then I move onto the next thing.

For the record - your post reminded me to take my medicine 👍😂. I'd been downstairs when my alarm went off this morning and my husband shouted down to let me know but I immediately forgot as I'd been getting something ready for the kids and just briefly thinking about that was enough to make me entirely forget my medicine. 🤷 Now as I type this I remember I need to order a repeat prescription for that medicine... What are the chances of me remembering by the time I press submit...

This is just 1 example, in reality these little blips happen practically all the time every single day. 😔

What are people who don't have ADHD worried will happen when other people get diagnosed? It seems to provoke a lot of anxiety for people who aren't obviously affected by other people obtaining support. What am I missing? Is it just that it feels like it invalidates your non-ADHD struggles?

But if I don't respond to the alarm immediately (and I do mean immediately) then I will turn it off and immediately forget it went off and that I need to do something.

Same! I was going to add to my ‘anniversary’ post, ‘and even then I’ll have to order the flowers RIGHT AWAY otherwise it’s snooze and forget’. But again, all part of the training. I just do things immediately or at ‘odd’ times now. I would say having to remember to take lifesaving meds 7 times daily has also been good for my ‘do it now, or regret it’ skills. All this talk of reminders has also reminded me it’s my grandma’s birthday in 3 weeks, so here I am ordering the flowers now before I forget. DH has always thought I do things ‘ridiculously early’ but he doesn’t understand the danger zone I get into if I don’t! It’s just repetition, repetition. It took me years and even now my organisation is only average. But that’s good enough for me.

It does matter to others because it confers rights and protections that they don’t have, in the workplace. It also yet agains stretches the net of what is ‘ableism’ to the degree that what was a perfectly inoffensive statement (ie, ‘they’re very disorganised’ about a coworker) 5 years ago is ‘ableist’ and ‘offensive’. It also further pushes ‘NT’ people into a tiny stream of acceptable behaviour, holding them to yet higher standards when this idea that they have a perfectly oiled brain and can cope with all aspects of life with ease is nonsense. It decreases tolerance basically.

I think you have a bit of a narrow view on what adhd is - it's so much more than "being disorganised". It is very challenging to tackle and can't easily be addressed by individuals themselves through simply trying harder or using more organisational systems, though of course that can help.

Which protections do you want that adhd people have and you don't have and would like? Have you ever considered the challenges of sharing an adhd diagnosis with an employer?