Page 10 | AIBU to think my DD's teacher was inappropriate?

picklesandicecream · 2023-01-15T14:45:03+00:00

Idk what exactly to think of this... my 14 year old DD came home from school the other day absolutely fuming. When questioned on what happened, she told me that her (male) teacher had been really sexist and unfair. She said that when she offered to help carry something to another classroom, she was told to sit down and let one of the boys do it. She then told the teacher that she was perfectly capable and happy to help, but he stuck to his guns and asked one of the boys to carry the box to the other classroom. DD and her friends were outraged and spent the rest of the lesson talking loudly about modern day misogyny and the influence Andrew Tate has on vulnerable men and teenage boys.

saraclara · 15/01/2023 22:18

Overthiscrap · 15/01/2023 22:08

is it possible that he wasn’t been sexist but didn’t actually want to be on his own with your daughter? If they were going to an empty classroom or to a remote area maybe he was covering himself.

That too. If this 14 year old gobby girl actually exists, she doesn't sound like the kind of teen that a male teacher wants to find himself alone with.

OnTheRoll · 15/01/2023 22:20

I see no problem in encouraging boys to be the ones to do heavy lifting. Girls and women can do it of course but if there is a man around it is right if that man does it instead. It's called respect for women and the opposite of mysoginy.

NumberTheory · 15/01/2023 22:25

sassyclassyandsmartassy · 15/01/2023 22:12

As a woman who lifts weights, and lifts heavy, I still have men that are concerned about me lifting certain heavy items. Do I take this as misogyny? No. I take this, personally, as men being gentlemen who don’t really know my full capabilities…. And, even with my capabilities, it doesn’t stop them wanting to be gentlemen! Men being raised to respect women and act like gentlemen for it is not a bad thing and is something to be celebrated.

Equally, even with my training, it doesn’t stop me accepting that men are naturally stronger than women.

I say this as a very independent woman living with one of life’s true gentlemen who celebrates everything about me being independent, whilst disputing at me for over pushing myself sometimes to prove a point 🙂 and not accepting help….

In an age of feminism we have to be really careful not the swing the pendulum so far with perceived misogyny that we just automatically assume everything is a slight against us as women…. That way leads to the path of toxic feminism that results in people switching off from considering the real issues that should be an integral part of feminism (such as equality in the fact that women should earn the same as men in the same job and that women can be plumbers, bricklayers and mechanicals as much as the next person, etc.)

But, quite simply, it has to be accepted as a universals truth that there are unchangeable differences between men and women. I mean, no man is getting pregnant any time soon…

In conclusion I think we need to call out genuine misogyny, but be very careful not to label something as such out of hand.

Whether it’s outright misogyny or a more palatable chivalry, in a school there is a lot of setting expectations and creating and reinforcing social norms. As an authority figure, a teacher telling kids that boys should lift and girls shouldn’t, especially where the girl has said she’s capable, is liable to reinforce stereotypes and be limiting, rather than helping create an environment in which all the kids can meet their potential.

NumberTheory · 15/01/2023 22:27

OnTheRoll · 15/01/2023 22:20

I see no problem in encouraging boys to be the ones to do heavy lifting. Girls and women can do it of course but if there is a man around it is right if that man does it instead. It's called respect for women and the opposite of mysoginy.

It’s not respectful if the woman wants to do the lifting.

Gabby8 · 15/01/2023 22:33

As others have said it could have been a safe guarding issue- preferred not to be alone with a female student.

On the other hand maybe he’s a sexiest prick- there’s not really enough information either way. I think though there’s potentially more to the story and it maybe had nothing at all to do with your daughter.

Canthave2manycats · 15/01/2023 22:44

I'd see it as chivalrous and considerate. You can't deny the fact that the male of the species is physically stronger than the female. PC gone mad!!

sassyclassyandsmartassy · 15/01/2023 22:45

I don’t disagree, but, had the girl lifted the box and hurt herself where would the teacher stand then? I think there are too many variables in this story to draw an out and out conclusion off the bat, but, I do also believe we need to be car what we label things without full facts and we have to be careful
to take a balanced viewpoint of situations and, as such, raise our children to do the same.

sassyclassyandsmartassy · 15/01/2023 22:47

NumberTheory · 15/01/2023 22:25

Whether it’s outright misogyny or a more palatable chivalry, in a school there is a lot of setting expectations and creating and reinforcing social norms. As an authority figure, a teacher telling kids that boys should lift and girls shouldn’t, especially where the girl has said she’s capable, is liable to reinforce stereotypes and be limiting, rather than helping create an environment in which all the kids can meet their potential.

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Sorry @NumberTheory for some reason and nuances of MN my reply (above) didn’t appear to ‘reply’. 🫤

blackbird77 · 15/01/2023 22:55

This is so ridiculous, everyone’s brains seem to be completely falling out. This is such a non-event.

The teacher didn’t even say “let one of the boys do it because they are BOYS or because they are stronger” or anything like that. He just said “let one of the boys do it”. There’s a million and one teacher-related reasons why he might have wanted one of the boys to do it or alternatively NOT wanted your daughter or one of her friends to do it, none of which have anything to do with what sex they are. It’s none of your daughters business why the teacher made the decision he did and she should stop speculating about offence when probably none was intended.

Normally when I need a student to run an errand for me, I’ll choose a trusted, sensible student (or group of students) who I know will be quick, know where to go, just get the job done and not make a big song and dance about doing it, or pick a student who has finished/is ahead of their work in class or a student who could do with the break. I’m least likely to choose an annoying, entitled, clumsy or slow student. I keep the reasons to myself and just communicate with the students diplomatically.

saraclara · 15/01/2023 23:00

In a thread the other day, everyone was saying that a teacher should never be alone with a student. Given that the male teacher was likely to be alone with whichever pupil helped with the task, OP, would you prefer that he'd said to your DD "sorry, I need a boy to carry this as I don't want to be alone with you in case you accuse me of something sexual"?

NumberTheory · 15/01/2023 23:05

saraclara · 15/01/2023 23:00

In a thread the other day, everyone was saying that a teacher should never be alone with a student. Given that the male teacher was likely to be alone with whichever pupil helped with the task, OP, would you prefer that he'd said to your DD "sorry, I need a boy to carry this as I don't want to be alone with you in case you accuse me of something sexual"?

If he should never be alone with a student, surely he shouldn’t be choosing one student (assuming he was going to go with them) at all, boy or girl? If that is the reasoning he needs to choose two students.

Having all teachers be able to be alone with students of the same sex but not the opposite sex will lead to skewed school experiences, especially with the skew of female teachers in the arts and male teachers in the sciences, so reinforcing current stereotypes.

NumberTheory · 15/01/2023 23:21

sassyclassyandsmartassy · 15/01/2023 22:45

I don’t disagree, but, had the girl lifted the box and hurt herself where would the teacher stand then? I think there are too many variables in this story to draw an out and out conclusion off the bat, but, I do also believe we need to be car what we label things without full facts and we have to be careful
to take a balanced viewpoint of situations and, as such, raise our children to do the same.

There could be lots of reasons for a teacher not to have chosen DD. And he may have not wanted to choose DD for many valid reasons. But to split the class by sex and vocalize that to students (as I read the OP saying he did) as an acceptable way to decide on their individual capabilities for something that is not something that boys can do and girls just can’t, is reinforcing the idea that it is because girls aren’t capable of lifting things.

I do agree, and have said elsewhere, that if what he actually said was “Let David do it” rather than “let one of the boys do it” it would be different. I think it’s the communicating it as a sex-class competency that is problematic. I don’t think it’s a problem that he didn’t want this particular girl to do it.

Harry12345 · 15/01/2023 23:31

I think it’s sexist if it’s the full story. Happened to me loads of times and I hated it. Different if it is something really heavy and it makes sense if there’s a bigger stronger person. However I remember teachers saying “I need a big strong boy to lift a few chairs” that I was perfectly capable of! If it was something she was capable of lifting but excluded because she was a girl then no wonder she felt it was sexist. People dismissing her isn’t nice either

Parentandteacher · 16/01/2023 00:11

maddy68 · 15/01/2023 15:14

There may have been another reason. I had a few ADHD boys that benefited from a break and I would ask them to do odd jobs.

It's not always how it seems

This was my first thought. I have kids whose OT reports suggest lifting heavy (within reason!) things as good ways to regulate.

magicthree · 16/01/2023 04:10

ffs - I couldn't care less about this sort of thing. Your daughter and her friends being disruptive for the rest of the lesson is a far greater crime to me.

Judgyjudgy · 16/01/2023 04:31

I suppose it is sexist but who cares. I prefer men to carry heavy things, in fact I will ask them to do it if they don't offer. I think there are actual sexist things to get worked up over. It's like some women who get offended if they are offered a seat or a door is held open for them, I find it quite sad. No wonder men get confused. (And don't get me wrong, actual sexism gives me the rage)

Bagsundermyeyestoday · 16/01/2023 04:32

Confusion101 · 15/01/2023 21:18

I am a teacher and in my experience sometimes (usually but not always) the kids who offer to bring something to another classroom are the students who are looking to get out of class for a few minutes. I will always always select the students, and not necessarily take up the offer of the first students to offer. I have never had a student get so offended by my choice and be disruptive for the rest of the class about it. At most I might get a sarcastic comment that we all laugh off and move on. Sorry but I think your DD is in the wrong here.

Ha ha, yes so true. Spoken with experience

echt · 16/01/2023 05:16

There is no evidence whatsoever that the teacher was being sexist.
Like other teachers who've posted, I keep a weather eye on those who leap to do tasks to get them out of the classroom and if they have form they are never picked.
The teacher may have had particular reasons for choosing a particular boy for the task.
Your daughter disrupted the rest of the lesson (If it wasn't BS bravado in re-telling the tale) so I'd be having word with her about that.

MmaPreciousRamotswe · 16/01/2023 05:45

OnTheRoll · 15/01/2023 22:20

I see no problem in encouraging boys to be the ones to do heavy lifting. Girls and women can do it of course but if there is a man around it is right if that man does it instead. It's called respect for women and the opposite of mysoginy.

I'd call it patronising.

FabFitFifties · 16/01/2023 11:21

A complete non event. Teacher's decision. I might be wrong, but sounds like disruptive girls. The girls can offer to help, but not force their help on the teacher, just because they are girls.

Thereisnolight · 16/01/2023 11:25

SleepingStandingUp · 15/01/2023 15:02

Regardless of sex, the teacher isn't going to ask the student who he knows will turn it into a song and a dance. Yes it was sexist to be a lad Inver a girl on principle that their penis help them carry heavy stuff, but your daughter is lucky to not have been sent to the head or given a detention for being so disruptive in class.
Also I wouldn't go around telling people Mr Hobbs had been inappropriate with your daughter as it brings to mind something more sexual

Well it’s not just their penis that improves their ability to carry heavy stuff now is it?
Can you really not understand that?

FeminismInSchools · 16/01/2023 14:02

It's hard to comment on a specific incident, but when I set up my first Feminist Society in 2016 the students quickly pointed to the language and behaviour of teachers and teaching assistants as being part of the problem. That's why we developed teacher-training sessions on challemging sexism in school. We don't want to make teachers/schools defensive - all schools have issues with sexist language/ behaviour expectations/ uniforms/ playground design etc. We don't want to blame individual staff members so a whole school training approach can be the most effective way of opening exploring the issues with staff. I offer training for free, and my union (NEU) has a great range of resources too, so pass on my details to any teachers/ governors and I'll arrange a CPD session. twitter.com/FemSchoolsNi
Google: NEU Teacher Toolkit It's Not OK

AIBU to think my DD's teacher was inappropriate?

WhereIsMumHiding3 · 16/01/2023 14:24

There are so many reasons why the teacher could have wanted to choose 'one of the boys' to carry the boxes than your DD, that teacher might not have wanted to explain to a whole classroom

her behaviour, I think she's shown why by her reaction
he was wanting to even up the "helping out"
he may have wanted her to finish her work set and 'the boys' he was thinking of asking had already finished
he may have noticed 2 boys in the class room who he knows have ADHD and were getting fidgety so thought they'd benefit from a subtly arranged quick physical break
he may have had specific reason to ask one of those boys as a quick chance to check in on them if they were talking too much or were looking anxious
he might have tried to lift his earlier and realised it was a two equally strong and tall person job and was looking at the joys thinking it'll be easier to match those two up

I'd definitely be interested in the teachers side

But really it's a non event and your DD has told you she was deliberately disruptive for the rest of the class

If this teacher has form for sexism then there will plenty other examples and that's what I'd ask her, if it was this one incident then I'd be shutting her down in this quickly that she may have misread the reason

LimeTwists · 16/01/2023 14:31

Is she in year 10? By that age, I’d expect boys to be taller and stronger so it’s not entirely unreasonable for a teacher to use his eyes and factually observe that stronger students are close by who could lift something more easily. Not sure that it’s the kind of outrageous sexism that requires your daughter and her friends to spend the rest of the lesson spouting about misogyny. Misogynists hate women. This teacher thinks the boys are probably stronger. Very, very big difference. I say that as a woman who weight trains. I also usually ask boys to turn on my whiteboard projector if there’s no remote as they tend to be about 3-4” taller. I’m not a misogynist.

poetryandwine · 16/01/2023 14:43

I am a STEM academic and a strong feminist. We don’t have enough information to assess why the teacher chose this boy. The OP contains ambiguities

We do have enough information to assess the behaviour of the OP’s DD. She behaved very badly after not getting her way. This had nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with petulance.