To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

In my opinion ‘both sides’ suggests an even balance of interests in a conflict of interests.

In this case men who who would like to be women, 0.5% of the population, are apparently asserting that they should be treated exactly as though they are identical to women, who are 50% of the population.

Meanwhile, all men, whatever their gender identity commit 98 (99?)% violent crimes while only 1-2% of women do.

There are no equally balanced “both sides” here.

It's like an invasion where the people being invaded are told to give up half their land to 'be fair'.

This is interesting. Do you think men exposing themselves is just a bit of a laugh? Do you not think that it's power play/threatening? Have you ever experienced it? Have you never been 'flashed at' and felt that you were in danger? I and many many other women have. Your ideas that flashers and 'peeping toms' are non threatening are misjudged.

I once had to look after my traumatised friend after a man exposed himself to her while she was in a train carriage. She was humiliated and scared for her safety. Maybe I should have told her to get a grip and not be 'all victorian' about it.

There's a complacency from some women on this thread that I find shocking.

Apparently it's easier for them to have empathy for a male with sexual fetishes than a child or female who has no desire to partake in the fetish but is being forced to by law and societal changes.

What kind of damage has been done to these women to make them like this?

Sadly, incidents like these aren't few and far between.
www.openaccessgovernment.org/97-of-women-in-the-uk/105940/

And I don't think it's a stretch to think that those inclined to do things like expose themselves or take upstart photos etc may be rather drawn to a unisex changing room (I mean they always were drawn to swimming pool changing rooms).

I don't think there is a single female friend of mine who hasn't had a man expose themselves at.

Bearing this in mind, if you had a pre teen daughter, how would you feel about her using unisex changing rooms on her own ?

I was flashed at as a seven year old. A man jumped out if a bush at me. I was flashed at in a square in Italy during siesta hour and I was peacefully reading. I was flashed at in a public street ladies lavatory - the flasher must have followed me in and was wanking on the stairs which were the only exit. I had to run and shove past him, then I ran without stopping for a mile.

This is not the end of my list of experiencing sexually vicious sick men - was the phrase “just a bit of penis”?

I am just one of all the women in the U.K. and surveys show:

One in four girls and one in six boys will experience childhood sexual abuse. One in five women over the age of 16 have experienced some form of sexual violence.
www.crasac.org.uk › useful-s...
Statistics - CRASAC - Coventry Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre

Feelings do not mean facts. I can “feel” threatened but it does not mean I AM threatened. Again. it all comes down to how realistic the fear is. There is a huge issue with confirmation bias in all areas of life. We think we are at risk and therefore any (even remote) suggestion that we are at risk is expanded in our heads.

Spoken exactly like a man who has not grown up watching news stories about girls and women attacked, raped and murdered by men, who has not known of adult women beaten by their partners, who has not had their skirt lifted even in early school years by boys wanting to see her knickers, who has not had her bra strap pinged, been flashed at, been groped, been followed, been cat-called, been chased and had to leave pubs and bars because men would just not leave her the fuck alone.

Thanks, mate. We know the risks. You haven't got a fucking clue.

What does the data show? Not what you have experienced or what friends have. But the actual number of times this happens in a year? You can only really judge whether an emotion is reasonable based on how realistic the threat is. If it is 1% that is one thing, if it is 80% that is another.

And also to counter your mansplaining - do you think that every time a woman is flashed at, groped, watched, been cat-called, had a heavy-breathing man sit right near her fondling his thigh she reports it and it becomes 'data'?

You're dreaming. Women's experiences of men's violence and unwanted attention are so much part of the wallpaper of our lives to be invisible - fuck - rape is practically legal the few times it is reported and a man is charged let alone cases that make it to court and those deemed to have sufficient evidence to succeed.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of women who will gleefully throw other women under the bus. Including those of us who have been raped and sexually assaulted, who they try to silence as our experiences are 'irrelevant' to our safety concerns about shared facilities, and then try to pretend they haven't said it.

These people need to get a clue. Such attitudes are unfathomable.

And also to counter your mansplaining - do you think that every time a woman is flashed at, groped, watched, been cat-called, had a heavy-breathing man sit right near her fondling his thigh she reports it and it becomes 'data'?

Well quite. Here are the stats from rape crisis. If this is the scale of the problem with rape how big do we think the problem of "general everyday" sexual harassment and other inappropriate behaviour is? Women don't report and often don't even mention much of it because it's such a common feature in their lives.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

I wonder if our mansplainer expends as much energy reprimanding men for their appalling behaviour as he does berating women who complain about that behaviour?

I know experience is the best teacher. I don't particularly expect a male to understand the female experience of simply being able to go through our day without an unpleasant or dangerous encounter with a male stranger (what a fucking achievement!!). I do however expect the male to listen to what he's being told by the females who DO have that experience.

It's plain arrogance not to.

I discovered the reason why Primark are so wedded to their policy of allowing any male to self id into women’s changing rooms despite a growing list of sexual assaults and harassment of women as a direct result if this policy.

In an act of atonement for a court case against them brought by a trans person who was treated unfairly at work, they made pledges of allegiance and a donation of £150k to the ILGA.

The ILGA is the global organisation that demands all female single sex spaces be open to any male on a self id basis and also campaigns for the age of consent to sex be lowered to 10.

They have huge influence on governments in many countries and demand full compliance with their policies.

Women and girls yet again thrown under the bus.

The ILGA is the global organisation that demands all female single sex spaces be open to any male on a self id basis and also campaigns for the age of consent to sex be lowered to 10.

WTF?

WTF exactly! 10, that is legally actually paedophilia. How is it that the media haven't got hold of this? Even raising it with an MP and them making an issue of it?

It's absolutely staggering, isn't it?

Indeed, and Twitter banned numerous GC members whilst allowing stuff about MAPs (ugh) to stand. Likewise, the incel subreddits remained whilst 'GC Feminists' was closed down.

How did these people manage to achieve this amount of power, and on a global basis? It's quite sinister.

Oh yay that demographic of MN has leaked all over the rest of the forums again.

The demographic that gives a shit about women and girls you mean?

🥱

Off you trot, then.

How did these people manage to achieve this amount of power, and on a global basis? It's quite sinister.

Powerful men with sinister agendas (I don't think there is just one) recruiting young people and naïve women with exhortations to be kind to turn a blind eye to the dismantling of sex based rights and child safeguarding. They've covered the future by capturing the education system and normalised the indoctrination of children.

Yes, sir. It's obvious you don't give two hoots about women. Or about a group wanting to legalise 10 years old as the age of consent. Keep sticking to the cult and lacking any ability to use critical thinking.

Ah.. you're one of those....

It's really annoying isn't it then when you tell women what's going on they are fucking furious. That's why silencing has been a key part of the TRA strategy.

I am looking at the ILGA ‘Glossary’
and saw this which is legally and factually wrong as far as the U K is concerned as Gender Reassignment in the Equality Act is a protected characteristic and certainly does not only refer to those who have medically transitioned - far from it.

‘Gender reassignment: This is an outdated term to refer to the process of medical transition. It comes from the 2018 CJEU decision on a change of gender and retirement pension case and is used to legally describe medical transition in the context of the EU. (See Transition)’