To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

And I quote:

Rape is a provocative subject used to silence females who domt agree with the narrative.

So if this wasn't an attempt to suggest rape was a 'provocative subject' (offensive in itself), used to shut down discussion (ie silence females who don't agree) then what exactly is it?

I'm not remotely interested in your discussions with other posters. I was objecting solely to your use of that particularly offensive phrase. And yes, what it means is you're accusing rape survivors of weaponizing their trauma. And yes, that is a direct attempt to silence them, because their inconvenient experiences happen to provide a powerful argument against your views about women.

You can call my pointing out exactly what you've said 'abhorrent' as much as you like. It's there in black and white.

I find it offensive, too. It's not matter of being unable to adapt to the times, it's a matter of not accepting an insulting epithet forced on me by others.

I'm not a "cis" woman - I'm a woman, and that's the only designation I and most women need.

Transwomen, being male, do need the prefix to distinguish them from women and other men.

I didn't imply anything of the sort.
I didn't excuse him, I pointed out 'reality', as some posters love. Nooe knew his intentions. no-one.
Your third sentence is nonsense.

And No, they wouldnt be. it's just as I said many pages ago, women are not one monotonous voice. I can have different views on different aspects but agree in some. The fact these boards have lost sight of this and if your views arent copy and paste of everyone else's then come the attacks celebrated by each other is genuinely scary.

No they don't. As far as humans are concerned, the word hermaphrodite is like the word unicorn: the word's existence does not correlate to the concept existing in material reality. The Greeks and medieval europeans thought people could be born with both functioning sets of organs. They also thought centaurs and unicorns existed.

They were incorrect on all counts.

So biological sex is your boundary.

So TW should be using male facilities, as they're biological males. That includes changing rooms, doesn't it. Cos you agree that biological sex is the boundary.

Wtf are we arguing about? You're as trasphobic (your definition) as the rest of us.

Yes. Although on the plus side I did get to sign the petition that was posted, so good information was shared.

🥂

Well, you are, seeing as you came in to tell me what you thought about it.
Rape is a provocative subject. That is not remotely offensive. It provokes a wide range of emotions in us. We are all universally agreed it is abhorrent. My point there is when it becomes part of a debate, not in the form of someone sharing their experience as you have suggested but in me being accused of endorsing it by daring to suggest we show some compassion to trans people, making that immediate jump shuts down any form of discussion because, despite several attempts to do so, I am sickened by the suggestion I would endorse it. It stops me being able to have any form of view that strays in any form from the narrative. If you don't have copy and paste views of those already shared, you endorse rape, and of course no reasonable person can have any reasonable response to that.
I'm not accusing anyone of weaponising trauma, at all.
I am suggesting that when the word is thrown into a debate with no connection at all other than to silence me, which in this case is entirely what happened, it creates an issue.
That is ENTIRELY different to someone sharing experiences of rape.That is the last time I am going to address this, you can take it or leave it as you are completely out of order.

WTF ware we arguing about is entirely my thoughts.

I just don't think its as simple a discussion as saying "no", and I dont think its black and white in practice, which apparently is the most outrageous view ever expressed, because of course history would dictate that people just say no heres the facts and things happen. obviously.

I dont think its transphobic to want separate spaces, btw, so its not my definition.

I think its transphobic to say you "dont give a fuck about trans people" and talk of "magical thoughts" and other generally demeaning, mocking phrase or to suggest that all trans people are gaining entry for sexual purposes. Again, obviously the most outrageous view to ever grace MN.

I am suggesting that when the word is thrown into a debate with no connection at all other than to silence me

No it isn't. How arrogant. Not everything is about you. It's the lived experience of several women on this thread, including me. It's relevant to this thread because it's part of our reality.

There has been no transphobia

suggest that all trans people are gaining entry for sexual purposes

Who said that they all were then?

So is a trans woman (who still has their male bits ) who likes men gay or straight?

In your opinion
I find it transphobic. Now what?

You know fine rightly this a common point of view.

Further, when you picture someone having "complete sets of both sex organs at birth", how do you picture this working?

How do you fit a clitoris and vulva in the same place as a penis and testicles? Is the answer here that you forgot the clitoris and you imagined a penis, and a vulva behind it?

That's not complete, is it? And what about urination? Do you imagine that this being has two urethras?

Honestly, this is just like the ludicrousness of mythological centaurs. I always used to wonder what they would eat. Horse stomachs are very delicate, so it's got to be the diet of a horse, but human molars are totally ill-adapted to a horse's diet. No-one seems to think about this, not even C.S. Lewis.

What? So you find fact transphobic? That's just weird.

Let's look at this another way
For example

What is the rational for gender segregation?

Do all men want unisex ?

Perhaps it also concerns me and people I know.

Perhaps I feel uncomfortable continuing with a discussion when ive been accused of endorsing rape which went entirely unaddressed earlier on. Perhaps that's what I was clumsily attempting to say.

But yeah, it's all about me.

You are being deliberately offensive now.

Transphobia now means recognising transwomen are biologically male so....

I forgot about MN where one size fits a
Women are a category, trans are a category, transphobia is cut and dried as is any debate in any of the above topics.

How so? I find your use of the term cis and calling people transphobic when they're not deliberately offensive, but you're not going to stop are you?

Apparently so...

I am actually, as I imagine will be a course for celebration when the pack realise theyve managed to bully another poster off their echo chamber.

Il be unwatching to avoid the vitriol

Perhaps I feel uncomfortable continuing with a discussion when ive been accused of endorsing rape

I myself said that some biological women (not specific people on the thread) enable rape. Not "endorse" it. This is a fact. I'm prepared to believe that some of them are naive, but they still do harm. This is what rape culture is. Are you meaning someone else's comment, or are you twisting my words?