To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

Yes @Delphinium20 thank you!!! This most “marginalised and vulnerable group” trope needs dispelling with data!

All so sad. General lack of respect towards women. Men generally mistreating women, us not feeling safe.

Plus re the trans issue generally, The vast majority of male-born transwomen choose to keep their penis. So let's be honest most of them don't actually really want to be women. (Not that any of them have a decent answer to the question of what being a woman actually IS, or rather I haven't heard a decent answer yet). They are just men in drag, men who want to dress up as women and pretend to be. It's all rubbish.

So if someone identified as a donkey, would they be a donkey? If someone identified as one half of that couple who won £185 million on the lottery would the bank allow them to withdraw a couple of million? Somehow I doubt it yet you’re saying MTF or FTM is OK, why’s that again? Enlighten us.

That US data is horrific, thanks to the poster who added it. I'd argue that CHILDREN are the most vulnerable group, clearly.

I'm tired of grown men and brainwashed women claiming the most vulnerable are blokes with fetishes. Even our politicians say it. Keir Starmer, former Crown prosecutor ffs, tells that myth like the good little handmaiden he is, whilst throwing kids to the self same "vulnerable" wolves.

It's not right.

How on earth can anyone defend this?

Gosh when you think about it the TRAs have done a real job on society. Making out the oppressors to be the oppressed.

I will never ever believe it is the oppression (of men with trans presentations) to keep women and girls safe.

It is the oppression of women and girls to force them to share spaces (or to self exclude as is evidenced by several posts on this thread) with these men who are putting their own desires above the safety and dignity of women and girls.

No thank you.

Many countries have mixed sex facilities

Many countries also have slavery - doesn't make it something I'd like to see here

Limesodas · Yesterday 15:10
If that’s how they identify that’s how they should be treated.

Many countries have mixed changing and have done for donkeys years, this is nothing ‘new’

@Limesodas which countries please?
What institutions/places? Who uses the changing facilities? What sort of number?
What is the entrance to the mixed changing area like?

If the video of you on the internet encouraged a young man down the wrong path that ended in him killing his ex - would you still be ok ?

Limesoda
How come if transwomen are 100% innocent of being sexual predators there is a disproportionate number of sex offender identified as transgender ? That shows that either people lie about being transgender or ?

"Is this really the worst thing that can happen in the world. I would much rather a video of me ended up on the internet vs a transwoman be attacked or even killed in a males changing room for being trans.

very altruistic of you

but as others have pointed out you know that means you are saying that you are ok with your daughter and my daughter and their daughters ending up on porn sites, potentially ending up on the phones and laptops of males in their schools and offices…putting them in danger

Is this really the worst thing that can happen in the world. I would much rather a video of me ended up on the internet vs a transwoman be attacked or even killed in a males changing room for being trans.

This has got to be the MOST disgusting thing I've ever read on Mumsnet.

No it is not OK for women & girls to be covertly filmed and uploaded to porn sites if it keeps a man who identifies as trans safe.

What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

findmybalance · Yesterday 20:01

I asked earlier upthread the statistics for women being assaulted in a changing room and that doesn't seem to have appeared.

That's untrue, the stats have been linked to several times. Also, a link to some stats about the rates of assaults and murders of women, compared to transsexuals.

Please, if you want to argue your case, do so honestly.

Disgusting, and massively disingenuous. Men are not getting hurt or killed in male spaces because they wear feminine garb. Some men might be uncomfortable, and I dare say there is some risk in entering relationships with straight men on the basis of deceit, but these men do not need our spaces as protection. Far from it.

Ah! Another who thinks women's rights, safety, dignity are a laughing matter.

Typical.

“Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex
The Government must exercise its power under s.23 of the Gender Recognition Act to modify the operation of the Equality Act 2010 by specifying the terms sex, male, female, man & woman, in the operation of that law, mean biological sex and not "sex as modified by a Gender Recognition Certificate"

The target is to gather 100,000 petitions by April.
⬇️
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

Yeah. The moment They use the word 'validated' you know They are lying

Even if it was true that transwomen were at risk of being hurt or killed in men's toilets why the fuck should girls face the risk of being uploaded to porn sites to keep these males safe from other males?

I wonder if this poster, and others who are trying to lower women and girls boundaries are the parents or have close relatives who are little boys who like to wear dresses & are sucked up in an ideology to protect their sons from other males and therefore dgaf about the impact on everyone else? It's the only explanation I can think of for the complete disregard to the rights, dignity and safety of women and girls.

Women and girls are not second class citizens to males, even ones who claim to be trans. Not ever.

It makes my blood boil.

Another with the validating!

Weirdly some of us are pretty highly educated in the world of human physiology.

Women, mothers are female, not inherently stupid!

Gender is a feeling, an ideology. Sex is a biological fact.

@lifeturnsonadime Absolutely, it's never our place to provide protectionbut it's the outright lying for sympathy which is so shocking. It is not about safety, it never has been. I don't even think it's about validation, in a lot of cases. Again, 30 seconds on any social media platform gives a good idea of just why we can't have these spaces, and it's so far the opposite of protection.

How do you explain to a little girl that the man in the changing room is a women because he says he is even though he has a penis. However some men may be in the changing but they don’t really believe they are female and just pretending so you need to be careful.

You have to laugh, @SamphirethePogoingStickerist. Is it a full range of genders, or are they sexes? When will Billy produce evidence of the other 99 gametes? Are those middle aged men who have 3 kids and a 20 year marriage suddenly discovering a scientific basis to their new identity? Or is gender simply a presentation preference which cannot be tested for? Why is human sexual biology taught exactly the same today as it was 15 years ago if our understanding is so outdated?

How do you explain to a little girl that the man in the changing room is a women because he says he is even though he has a penis. However some men may be in the changing but they don’t really believe they are female and just pretending so you need to be careful.

We shouldn't have to. I don't plan on changing my boundaries. To help protect women and children, please sign and share:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=1

It's not far off the target for potential Parliamentary debate.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · Yesterday 17:25

I know, right
Its amazing how many people seem to think that a biology GCSE taken 15 years ago, means that they have any understanding of genetics and the advances made in understanding them over the past few years. Validating a full range of genders that were never understood until now.

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates

There are regular posters who come on here who are well versed in assessing scientific articles.

1.Please, for clarity, would you say what you mean by ‘gender’? Do you mean a sense of identity of being more feminine or masculine as perceived in our society?

Or, do you mean ‘sex’ that means either male or female (biological)?

2.Please would you post the evidence which you say means that there have been advances in genetics and understanding which validate a full range of genders that were never understood until now.

3.Re, a scientist explaining sex, this video is excellent.

The 2004 GRA was the middle ground only now TRA's/MRA's think a medical diagnosis is gatekeeping and we have slid, without debate or consensus, into defacto self ID which puts women in danger. The backlash will also endanger people with gender dysphoria when the actions of bad faith actors can no longer be ignored or hand waved away.

Neither our legislators or the "trans" community can be trusted to respect women or protect children. I don't believe most of the people pushing gender ideology and the dismantling of safeguarding are actually trans.

We've experimented with the GRA and it hasn't worked out well for women so now we are saying NO.