To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

What is a GRC anyway? Freddie McConnell birthed two children - one of the most female things you can do - whilst 'transitioned'.

Surely this renders the GRC useless? You aren't living in your preferred gender if you are birthing kids, with a female body that you so reject?

Are those the papers that had to have retractions published ?

The ones that looked at post surgical transowmwn and detected trauma markers - trauma markers that are more common in women because they suffer more trauma ?

So not a guaranteed way if distinguishing brains but something that shows the plasticity of brains ?

Did you see the blind panic from the TRa's a few weeks ago when there was talk of research being published which proved there was some physiological explanation for being trans. If you thought this would make them happy then you would be wrong. It's almost as if the activists know there are some people co-opting the struggles of people with gender dysphoria for their own ends.

What is a GRC anyway? Freddie McConnell birthed two children - one of the most female things you can do - whilst 'transitioned'.

Not exactly living as your "acquired gender" is it?

The only time I ever see anyone suggest that suggest that all trans people are gaining entry for sexual purposes is when it is given as a strawman argument to discredit the actual argument, which is while most trans women may not be sexually motivated, we can't tell which trans women have a sexual motivation until they act on it, so if one prioritises female safety, privacy and dignity then all trans women have to be excluded, just as all men are excluded even though only a minority of men are sexual predators.

Just to add to this - it isn't necessarily that people think transwomen have a sexual motivation. With self-ID, any male-bodied person can waltz into female spaces and claim to be trans. It's opening the door to sexual predators. If a transwoman is male-bodied, how is anybody to know whether that person is a sexual predator or not? I would have no problem with a transwoman who had had their penis surgically removed being in the same space as me. At that point, "male-bodied" is less of a risk. But very few transwomen do that.

This

It would seem there is not.
From adc.bmj.com/content/103/7/631

Quote

Karyotype

Initially the approach with [Gender Dysphoria] was similar to that for disorder of sex development, with a karyotype being routinely requested. An audit of UK clinics from 2013 to 2015 (Table 1) revealed no differences from cytogenetic surveys of the UK newborn population and elsewhere.10 11 Therefore, routine karyotyping of a child or adolescent with GD is not required unless any specific clinical features determine this to be necessary.

Transwomen are not women. They don’t have XX chromosomes so despite what Dylan Mulvaney et al will tell you, they’re just blokes.

Very odd. Why don't they want to dissociate themselves from such people?

"I am actually, as I imagine will be a course for celebration when the pack realise theyve managed to bully another poster off their echo chamber.

Il be unwatching to avoid the vitriol"

Not wanting penis in changing rooms is bullying.

Fortunately for her, she can easily leave the internet thread where she feels uncomfortable.

FDJ

Former female offender, England

“Being in prison with male prisoners, you always feel on edge. You know something could happen at any time. We know they are not women. They are physically threatening and aggressive. I was sexually assaulted and I am not the only woman who has been. They haven’t had surgery and they expose themselves. One of them had been told he couldn’t shower at the same time as us women. He made a formal complaint and said this was a breach of his human rights. So now he is allowed to shower with us. And because he now has that right, the other males have that right too. There’s only a shower curtain between us. He moves the curtain so we can all see his penis when he is washing himself or shaving his legs. This is disgusting and I think it is disgusting that the prison allows this.

We can’t complain about anything. They are very well protected and it feels like our rights as women just don’t count. We have to call them ‘she’ and ‘her’ and have to use their female names. If we don’t, we are punished and lose our enhanced prisoner or D-Category status. It is horrible to do that to women.

I am very upset that I lost my legal case. I can’t understand how anyone can say that imprisoning males alongside women is the right thing to do. The prisoner who attacked me was convicted of the most serious sexual offences against girls and still has his penis. How can the government say that putting him in prison with women is the right thing to do? It’s not. I am out of prison now. But I think about all the other women still in prison who have to live with these males. This is dangerous, disgusting and wrong.”

Continues at kpssinfo.org/women-in-prison-speak-out/

It's a cruel punishment, adding sexual harassment, abuse and voyeurism, possibly even rape, to a 6 month prison sentence for handling stolen goods. Almost medieval.

Now....where oh where did i leave that scolds bridle?

What utter bullshit. My small gym often has five or six women around the communal changing area every night doing a few rounds in the sauna after training. Presumably similar on the blokes' side. So this family-run business now has to set up 10 to 12 single-user sauna cubicles, obvs with attached enclosed shower, changing and rest area for in between? They'd have to dedicate two thirds their current training floor just for this nonsense, not to mention the ludicrous waste of energy resources.

Oh, you didn't mean it this literally? No, you just want my gym to downgrade services for everybody, and go bankrupt either way since after the downgrade what is left to justify paying twice the fee of 24hr Fitness?

Quite.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · Today 22:23
WandaWomblesaurus · Today 22:13
"I am actually, as I imagine will be a course for celebration when the pack realise theyve managed to bully another poster off their echo chamber.

Il be unwatching to avoid the vitriol"

Not wanting penis in changing rooms is bullying.
Fortunately for her, she can easily leave the internet thread where she feels uncomfortable.

FDJ

Former female offender, England

“Being in prison with male prisoners, you always feel on edge. You know something could happen at any time. We know they are not women. They are physically threatening and aggressive. I was sexually assaulted and I am not the only woman who has been. They haven’t had surgery and they expose themselves. One of them had been told he couldn’t shower at the same time as us women. He made a formal complaint and said this was a breach of his human rights. So now he is allowed to shower with us. And because he now has that right, the other males have that right too. There’s only a shower curtain between us. He moves the curtain so we can all see his penis when he is washing himself or shaving his legs. This is disgusting and I think it is disgusting that the prison allows this.

We can’t complain about anything. They are very well protected and it feels like our rights as women just don’t count. We have to call them ‘she’ and ‘her’ and have to use their female names. If we don’t, we are punished and lose our enhanced prisoner or D-Category status. It is horrible to do that to women.

I am very upset that I lost my legal case. I can’t understand how anyone can say that imprisoning males alongside women is the right thing to do. The prisoner who attacked me was convicted of the most serious sexual offences against girls and still has his penis. How can the government say that putting him in prison with women is the right thing to do? It’s not. I am out of prison now. But I think about all the other women still in prison who have to live with these males. This is dangerous, disgusting and wrong.”

kpssinfo.org/women-in-prison-speak-out/

That prisoner’s account is very upsetting. It is so outrageous and unfair that allowing
and promoting this is in itself an attack on the women.

I am sorry, I wrote that out the wrong way “Not wanting penises is bullying” was said by Wandawomblesaurus

Because some of us aren't prudes, consider our bodies as normal and have no issue getting changed in the presence of other women? No need for burkas (my towels are too small/I'm too fat for the contortions you suggest.)

You're probably one of those people complaining in cafes if breastfeeding mothers don't hide their poor kids under a shawl.

@Grumpybutfunny
I want a single spaced toilet. I also want a female changing room.

Are you not capable of considering other peoples needs?

a transwoman be attacked or even killed in a males changing room for being trans.

Firstly, some evidence this is happening please.

Secondly, even if it is, why is it women's job to be a shield? You can tackle the issue of male violence towards Transpeople. Thats got fuck all to do with women.

Grumpybutfunny · Today 18:13
Is this really the worst thing that can happen in the world. I would much rather a video of me ended up on the internet vs a transwoman be attacked or even killed in a males changing room for being trans

Are you really saying that you feel it would be your personal duty to be prostituted virtually if it meant that men who want to be women wouldn’t run the chance of being hurt by other vicious men?

That is good hearted of you, but why should it not rather be that:

-men who attack other men who want to be woman get large custodial sentences?

• men who want to be women ( 0.5% percent of the population) be provided with a dignified, safe space where no men are, but where no women are either?

Exactly. Women are not killing trans people... that's on men (again)

Is this really the worst thing that can happen in the world. I would much rather a video of me ended up on the internet vs a transwoman be attacked or even killed in a males changing room for being trans.

Transwomen are male.

Are there other vulnerable males you think should have access to female spaces?

Why is it up to women to provide protection for vulnerable males?

Why the fuck would you offer up your own safety as a sacrifice to protect vulnerable males?

Do you really think you have a right to offer on behalf of other women?

Women campaigned for their own spaces, is there a reason you don't think transwomen should?

If you are in any doubt about what is reasonable you should replace the word transwoman with the word man and then ask yourself if you are still being reasonable?

Remember these facilities are labelled by phenotype/identity not genotype.

That is a misrepresentation.

When "these facilities" aka women's provisions were established, the label Woman meant female bodied, to the level that was understood at the time which is roughly "born with visually female sex organs", and therefore subject to the social pressures, risks and indeed advantages that people who met that description faced. The facilities exist because of the people who needed them.

The concept that the word Woman might be repurposed as a label of a mixed sex identity was not on the radar at all.

It is utterly disingenous to portray these provisions as if they just exist in a vacuum for any group with the political and social power to claim the label Woman to take. The label is irreelevant. It is the needs of the people, not the label, that gave shape to the facilities that now exist, and those people were female. These are facilities based on female needs and males, regardless of their label, have no claim on them.

To look backwards from today, when Woman has (arguably, not universally, and in the face of significant and ongoing resistance from those who have a historical claim to the label) been redefined as an identity label and claim, based simply on the word itself and ignoring the chance in meaning, that means Woman's facilities are "labelled by ...identity" is at best an error of understanding, and at worst deliberate appropriation of a marginalised group's resources by overwriting their history with the dominant group's narrative.

The honest thing to do, if it is so important to trans women's identities that they get to be called Women, would be to relabel everything set up under the old meaning to make it clear it now applies to the new female-only group, ie the same people it always did. The fact this has not happened, and is considered so transphobic that not only are existing female-only provisions not being relabelled to stay female only but even allowing the existing provisions to become mixed sex, accepting the resulting appropriation of female resources for male and attempting only to set up new female-only provisions in addition is denounced as unacceptable, abhorrent and transphobic.

In fact, I must thank the PP for such a clear example of how redefining the existing word Woman from sex to gender identity instead of just having different words for these clearly different things can be used to justify a land grab between two concepts that are in reality different and unrelated, and therefore why the "compassionate" reluctance to name the reality of trans women's sex is so dangerous to female people's rights, protections and political voice.

@FOJN 100%