To wonder whether this qualifies for compassionate leave?

[nhspolicy]

Situation as follows:

NHS employee, bereaved unexpectedly - think extended family member like Great Aunt/Uncle. Person was very close to the deceased person and was very distressed by the loss. 3 days absence from work following the news.

Which is the fairest option of these for the employee's manager to choose in respect of the above?

• compassionate/ special leave
• sick leave
• annual leave
• unpaid leave

Thanks.

Why call the union though? What does the undoubtedly published policy say?

as an NHS Director I would offer compassionate leave or sick leave if dr signs them off (which they probably will so just save yourselves the arse ache)

definitely not annual or unparalleled. Morale is low enough in the NHS

It was me who said that, because a huge number on the other thread said that they absolutely would not do so, on principle. Not 100% though, admittedly.

I’m bringing up my great niece, its exactly like being her Mum. So in that case, compassionate leave.

Meant to say unpaid not unparalleled

I’ve always taken annual leave for relatives’ funerals, including grandparents. My work is very accommodating of employees’ personal lives (terrific employer), but I wouldn’t want to go through the rigmarole of coding something as a special type of leave for which I’d need to jump through HR hoops. I just use vacation.

That's why we don't try to rank bereavements. If the staff member tells us they need time off becuase they were close, they need time off. Some people are closer to a neighbour than they are to their mother etc. We trust our staff until they give us a reason not to and then we manage that.

We're also a school whose staff only leave when either we manage them out for poor performance or they retire (mostly retire) with a recent good Ofsted

Is there not a policy they have to adhere to? In a school it would be unpaid leave and a conversation had about why it needs to be 3 days. Policy says bereavement issues that qualify for paid leave would be spouse/child/parent/grandparent. Any other request- including for funeral leave would be unpaid.

No it wouldn't, it depends on the individual school policy and in any case IME most of them say "at HT's discretion".

I think all 3 bar compassionate should be offered.

It sounds brutal but it has to be fair for everyone not just the person grieving.

Where I work it would be 1 day of compassionate for the funeral. Everything else would be unpaid or annual

Annual leave or unpaid leave if your holiday allowance is used up.
isn’t your company clear on this?

The burgundy book says compassionate leave may be granted for the funeral of a member of immediate family (that is parent, partner, child, brother or sister). This doesn’t cover the parent of a spouse. Anything to do with unpaid leave is at the schools discretion as far as I’m aware. This is why she’s speaking to the union so they can clarify if that is the official position or if there is any advice they can give her.

I think fairest is to follow the policy they have but using the relationship role the deceased person had in the employees life rather than simply the title. So if that allows for compassionate leave then they should grant that.

Does the manager have discretion for that, though? If not, then annual leave (assuming that’s what the employees would prefer) followed by unpaid.

Sick leave would be more appropriate if the bereavement left the person unable to be effective in work and the leave was for that purpose rather than to allow them time to sort out affairs, be with family or other loved ones, attend the funeral, etc.

So my personal ordering would be compassionate, sick leave if incapable of work, annual, unpaid. As a manager, if I had the discretion I would use whichever the employee preferred. It’s not the time to be pedantic and hold an arbitrary line you aren’t obliged to hold.

I’m NHS too. Went to uncles funeral just before Xmas and although I had 4 hours off for funeral I have to make the time up. Attending another funeral next week and will have to make that time up as well

That is what I think it should be. However, not all schools are the same, unfortunately. The Head and subsequently, the SLT they surround themselves with make or break a school and the morale amongst staff.

I think it would be sick leave, annual leave or
unpaid leave in the nhs. My great grandparent died (whom i nursed in my own home till the end) and I wasn't entitled to any compassionate leave. It should be at the managers discretion I think but understand its hard to say which relative you should get time off for as everybody's relationships are different (thats why I feel many managers understandably stick rigidly to the rules).

I was offered 2/whatever I needed on full pay with no questions asked, recently. Didn't need to take any time in the end, but it was straight up offered, not requested.

Compassionate leave. And an acknowledgement of the close relationship. I wouldn’t rush them back. Bereavement is hard to deal with and people need support in hard times.
The managers demanding staff are back in after 1 day, or rejecting leave applications for funerals will probably be wondering why their staff hate them or why morale is so low.
You treat people well and they will pay it back. Most people are good workers and loyal.
You can’t implement policies on the basis that every employee is an inherent pisstaker.

You’ve nearly covered all options there,sick,AL, unpaid. Only omitted special paid leave

At my last place of work (school) it would have been unpaid leave, with my current job (charity) I think I would get compassionate leave for the funeral and sick leave for the other days.

Harsh.

Being unfit to work because you are grieving can be taken as sick leave. When my DM died my boss (NHS) told me to get signed off and it said bereavement on my sick note.

Crikey, find another job! My husband's gran died and I got the day off for the funeral and it was paid too. Also secondary. A colleague has just had a day off and not done parents' evening because her grandfather died. Your work would do well to realise that you don't retain staff through fear and discipline but through loyalty.

You’re describing 2 different things. GP note saying bereavement,the employer will accept GP note as
A manager arbitrarily chosing to record sick because no other category works is different