To wonder whether this qualifies for compassionate leave?

[nhspolicy]

Situation as follows:

NHS employee, bereaved unexpectedly - think extended family member like Great Aunt/Uncle. Person was very close to the deceased person and was very distressed by the loss. 3 days absence from work following the news.

Which is the fairest option of these for the employee's manager to choose in respect of the above?

• compassionate/ special leave
• sick leave
• annual leave
• unpaid leave

Thanks.

Also NHS. We would have to take this as sick leave. When my father died, I had the 3 bereavement days off immediately after and then was advised to get a doctors note to have time off sick, if I needed more time. I took annual leave for the funeral.

Im a manager. It can be tricky to be flexible with compassionate leave if the policy is specific. Any bereavements I can’t cover I just tell people to take as sick leave.

No that’s not right it’s not sick. How do you record the sickness what illness do you chose? it’s really quite irresponsible to record non sickness as sick leave, and potentially problematic If they go on to trigger sick leave

@Zone2NorthLondon you’re completely wrong, it gets marked down as mental health as generally the people are not mentally well enough to be working.

You know, it’s fascinating. There is another thread going on about whether people should be asked to work unpaid overtime and it’s stuffed full of people saying that they won’t work a minute over their contracted hours without being paid, the majority of people taking that stance being public sector employees. By contrast, many in the private sector accept that working outside core hours is a standard expectation in a well-paid private sector job.
I can tell you this from personal experience- large organisations in the private sector may demand extra hours as a matter of course, and frown on the concept of “overtime” but when the chips are down they are generally very flexible about time off to deal with personal circumstances and do not want people working when they are clearly emotionally unable to do so. They have nominal policies for compassionate leave but they are rarely strictly enforced and everything is dealt with in a human way. So I guess that’s the reward for being flexible about the time you give them when you ARE able to work.

1 day compassionate 2 days annual. Does the employer not have a policy?

I agree with this. I had a very kind manager who gave me a week’s CL when my aunt (who was actually a family friend, but to all intent and purposes was my aunt) died. But the manner of her death was very relevant to my line of work, and a lot of aspects of my role (also NHS). It was lovely that I could grieve and support my mother, who was bereft. It also meant she didn’t have a member of staff bursting into tears in MDT meetings. I think when in the NHS it has to be taken into consideration that you’re often dealing with situations that might mirror what’s going on in your personal life. I’m sorry that some managers can’t see that.

I’m not wrong,just because you code bereavement as sickness doesnt make it ok
stick to the policy don’t make up sickness because the deceased relative isn’t included on the guidance
Youre still accumulating a sick record for non sick reasons. You’re recording leave following a death as stress or MH to avoid having a difficult conversation

It’s the organisationally approved way of dealing with bereavements @Zone2NorthLondon glad I don’t work for you!

The difficult conversation being telling a distressed person they have to come to work? Why would you want a distressed person in your workplace? How are they going to do their job? It seems clear to me they are unfit to work, how is that not sick leave?

You wrongly code leave as sick? Just get a code for extended family bereavement instead of creating an erroneous sick record. Get a recording system that’s fit for purpose eg approved special leave

creating a false sick record is problematic

I work in investment banking and our policy is close family relation, anything else is manager discretion. That being said, I've never had an issue with a manager giving me compassionate leave for a funeral of a friend or distant relative.

Not everyone is in pieces when a relative dies, are those who’ll try squeeze a day off for any distant relative.

I was granted two days compassionate leave to attend the funeral of my great aunt who I was incredibly close to. The funeral was at the other end of the country and very hard to do in just a day. I really appreciated my manager at the time allowing this. This wasn’t a “fun” trip by any means and my family were all very upset. I was his PA at the time so a tricky position to leave for two days but he understood. I think as a manager you need to sometimes see past specific policies if they allow for you discretion.

@Zone2NorthLondon No leave is coded where I work it’s just all done on spreadsheets it’s very old fashioned. And it would be useful to know how an organisation would handle an employee that was distraught and couldn’t focus for any personal reason - would you really not consider them to be mentally unwell? Would it really be - my goodness you’re upset, off you go on annual leave?!

The OP says clearly that this person was very distressed.

@MummyJ36 if an organisation has a written policy stating which relatives it is legally risky for them to use discretion as others could raise a grievance.

@Zone2NorthLondon no of course not everyone is in pieces, and those people don’t request time off.

It's not a false sick record! Once the compassionate leave allowance has been used up, if the person feels unable to return to work yet they can first self certify as sick, then if needed get a fit note stating they are unfit for work. It gets recorded under a mental health category.

You know,one can make general observation on threads and this is one such example

NHS employee here. My boss wouldn't allow compassionate leave in those circumstances, annual leave it would be. If no annual leave you'd have to make up every bit of time down to the last minute.

As a former business owner (400+ employees) I would not hesitate to grant compassionate leave to someone who felt they needed it.

You ve never worked in an environment where you would not be able to take the time, much less be chastised over it.

Although it may be at a manager’s discretion, usually the employment contract will stipulate the types of relatives you get x number of days’ compassionate leave for. If they don’t fall into the relevant category it’s annual / unpaid.

My a lot of trusts this would be annual leave or unpaid leave. Compassionate leave only applies for an immediate relative (parent, child, spouse).

Annual or unpaid

NHS has to be follow policy.

When I was a small business owner though I'd have allowed it as compassionate leave if they were close. As a small business owner it tends to be easier to tell so can be a bit more flexible. I I even allowed it for a pet once.