To wonder whether this qualifies for compassionate leave?

[nhspolicy]

Situation as follows:

NHS employee, bereaved unexpectedly - think extended family member like Great Aunt/Uncle. Person was very close to the deceased person and was very distressed by the loss. 3 days absence from work following the news.

Which is the fairest option of these for the employee's manager to choose in respect of the above?

• compassionate/ special leave
• sick leave
• annual leave
• unpaid leave

Thanks.

@Hollyhead Any bereavements I can’t cover I just tell people to take as sick leave that’s recording as sick leave because there isn’t an appropriate code or the circumstances aren’t covered in the policy. So,you’re allowing a day off and recording as sick
get a better recording system to cover eventualities

@Fairydustandsparklylights

Seriously? Wow that’s another reason I’m glad I left the profession

A decent policy should allow for this

You just make sure that people are genuine and not taking the piss

Which works fine until a precedent has been set.

As I said, every case has its merits, but adhering to policy means equity.

Example: mother in law expected to die imminently. Employee too upset to work. Mother in law lives for 7 days. Employee needed at home/hospital. Mother in law then dies. Then employee really too upset and has to be there with family to organise funeral for 4 days.

Where does the line get drawn?

Sick leave is for when you're sick which isn't the case here. I'd give compassionate leave, the clue's in the name. If they've already had quite a bit of compassionate leave previously and you feel you can't support/justify more they can take annual or unpaid leave.

I think most employers only give compassionate leave if spouse, sibling, parent or child dies. Many won't even give compassionate leave if a grandparent dies. My best friend died of many years died very unexpectedly and young. I was teaching. I had been at same school for 11 years with very low sick absence and had never asked for any compassionate leave before. I put in request for day off for funeral unpaid leave and got summoned to Headteacher who was horrible and said I could not have day off for funeral. She told me I was letting students down. I took day off anyway and sent in lesson plans for cover teacher. I got all the worst duties and on cover virtually every free for rest of term.

Given the closeness of the relationship you've mentioned, I would be inclined to say compassionate leave - I appreciate that this person isn't a parent but sometimes life isn't as black and white as a policy.

I manage a team of 6 (Public Sector) and like PP I know my team well, two of whom have a relative who is receiving end of life care - our policy is three days compassionate leave (sibling and parent). I do not know how they will feel when the time comes, but I fully expect additional leave, whether that be annual, unpaid or sick, will be taken. Grief isn't something predictable, and I am grateful that although there is a policy in place, it isn't something we adhere to rigidly.

[to be clear - we're not paying 6 months compassionate leave here, it's dealt with on trust, and to my knowledge is not something that is ever abused]

Controversial, but whatever. The expectation of compassionate paid leave is multiplied in public vs private sector. Based on actual vs theoretical experience.

Equitability and transparency are key. If the relative has held a parental position I would say compassionate. Precedents however do need to be considered and sadly people push the boundaries and tell untruths.

I've never worked anywhere that would give compassionate leave for that, not unless that had in fact bought you up.

I think it's unpaid leave if they had 3 days off unless work allows them to self-certify as sick.

NHS here. In this instance, all things being equal with good performance, etc, I would give compassionate leave using manager's discretion. If more time is needed they can then take sick leave.

As someone else said, not everyone has traditional relationships and it's important to recognise that. Treat your team how you would like to be treated, that's the way I look at things.

Same.

Compassionate/special leave, paid.

YES
Not sick leave

YES not sick leave

I would give someone in my team a days or two of special paid leave but it would be annual leave or sick leave after that.

There's a section in our special leave policy about time to deal with urgent unforeseen family matters (can't remember exactly what it says) so it allows some leeway, but at manager's discretion.

Annual or unpaid leave wherever I've worked - which would be fine by me.

I'm in the US, but this is who I'm permitted to take bereavement leave for:
spouse or significant other (significant other is defined to mean one who stands in place of a spouse and who resides with the employee), child, step-child, grandchild, parent, step-parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, brother, sister, step-sibling, mother-in-law, father-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, or legal guardian or other person who stands in the place of a parent. Bereavement leave will be granted to the parents in the case of a miscarriage conditioned upon the tendering of appropriate medical documentation or stillbirth conditioned upon the tendering of a death certificate.

We would have to to take a vacation day or a personal day (paid) for anyone else.

I'm sure you have a handbook or something that defines what leave is permitted.

Annual or unpaid. Why would someone expect compassionate leave for a great aunt etc? Unless they’d been in a parental role.

It’s interesting that that’s the way round you look at it. Because the other view is that public sector employees are sick and tired of putting in additional unpaid hours and then when they need a modicum of flexibility from the employers, they couldn’t care less.

you only have to look at some examples of NHS manager responses given above that highlights that. Now my own line manager was fantastic when my dad was suddenly ill and I needed time off. Immediately cancelled my clinics, paid for Oncall’s to be covered by others and checked that I was okay coming back before reinstating everything. In my previous hospital? Not a chance. Everything was a fight, getting them to follow the law regarding maternity was a battle and a half, getting them to pay us correctly was ridiculously hard - I can tell you I became fairly rigid in my timekeeping. My current place - I would and have been incredibly flexible for them. I’m the same person but like hell will I bend over backwards for shitty managers.

Sorry that was in response to @TerraNostra

I have 23 great aunts/uncles, plus most of them were married, so I could have claimed about 40 great aunts/uncles if I included them.

Yes, some I was closer to than others, but a manager couldn't have known which ones.

@LeroyJenkinssss but you are utterly wrong in presuming private sector employees don't also put in hours beyond their contract.

Oh yes. A colleague of mine recently had a leave request denied for their father in laws funeral. The reasoning was that Ofsted are due soon so they aren’t approving any future requests. However, they will confirm the afternoon before as, if they haven’t had “the call”, then they will “allow her to leave to attend”. It is beyond a joke. She has called the union for advice.

I'm SLT and we'd do up to a week compassionate and then ask you to see your doctor.