AIBU to not give DH a medal for this shop?

[DinnerThyme]

I love DH more than anyone else on this planet and he's my absolute best friend. He's kind, he's smart, he's interesting, he's handsome, he's witty, he's fun. But, he is completely fucking incompetent and it drives me insane. I have to do everything. Granted, he works very hard, when being micromanaged to the nth degree and would work 24/7 if asked - but, unless given explicitly clear instructions, everything he does just falls apart. It's 10x more work for both us so I don't think it's even "strategic incompetence".

A few months ago, it all came to a head. I expressed how unbelievably miserable it was making me to always have to be the only real adult in the relationship, that his incompetence is hurting me and that he's a grown adult who should be able to cope with all of these things. He fully accepted the problem and the responsibility to fix it. Since then, to my mind, things have not improved enough. To his mind, he has improved and is trying.

He outlined his examples:

• "Offering to help with [an aspect of my job]" - (Essentially, I give a lot of presentations and it's useful to run through those with someone before I give them. For years, when I ask DH, he'll say yes and then try to avoid it meaning that I waste huge amounts of time waiting for him (like "oh, sure, I'll just go to the bathroom and then we'll run through it" - but then he goes off and does something else and doesn't come back so I spent ages waiting for him for no reason). He says that he's massively improved on that - but, to my memory, he's not helped me one single time since the big argument - he's just promised to, which is no change from before. I've said it's fine to say no but he won't, he'll just lead me on. It's worth noting that he has expertise in an area which is why it's useful to have his input and I have expertise in an area of his work and frequently help him out with his.
• "Keeping the house tidy" - We've had to cancel his family coming over twice since the big argument because the house was too messy and I refused to tidy the whole house by myself for his guests. Any tidying he's done has been under explicit instructions from me (literally to the point of "there's some rubbish, put that in the bin", "that's DS's shoe, put that in the cupboard"). When left to tidy by himself, I'll return an hour later and it's literally not tidier - he'll have moved one pile of crap to one place and put another pile of crap where it was. The only exception to this is the dishwasher, which DH insists on doing every single night before bed, regardless of how much actually needs to go into it. To my memory, he's not done any tidying at all without being explicitly asked other than the dishwasher. In fairness to him, he does also do laundry and has some kind of "system" that I can't fathom for where he puts different baskets depending on whether they're clean/dirty/wet/dry and then split by person...I don't understand his system so I don't touch it and leave him to it. It apparently works for him (except on the frequent occasions that he can't find anything, when he's not sure if a basket is clean or dirty and when wet baskets get forgotten about and need rewashing) so I don't micromanage that and just leave him to his chaos "system". He has not swept, hoovered, wiped, mopped, dusted...
• "Taken charge of food deliveries...I did the last one without any support" - He's done two. The first one I sat with him, with a list and told him exactly what to put in the basket, in exact quantities. The second one, I told him some things that were needed (shampoo, conditioner, nappies etc) but left him to it. He bought the non-food items I asked for but, in terms of just food, he bought: sausage rolls, juice, pasta frozen ready meal, smoked salmon, cream cheese, cheddar, apples, crisps, squeezy fruit pouches, bear strawberry yoyos, frozen pizza, curly fries, avocados, milk, bread, bananas. This is to sustain a family of four, for a week. Keep in mind, I can't have dairy so I'm not able to eat the sausage rolls, the pasta ready meal, the cream cheese, the cheddar, the frozen pizzas or the milk. I'm baffled as to how he believes that this is a sign he's done something good. I feel like it's what a 10yo would buy.
• "Dealing with DS and DD issues in the morning (like nappies and feeding) and not just fucking off" - ok, yeah, if one of the DCs need a nappy change or DD is crying for milk and I'm not there then he will now change/feed them instead of waiting for me to come back and sort it out. I'm not sure why that's such a huge win though.

AIBU to expect more "progress" than this in three months? Granted, he has made progress, he did do a Tesco delivery by himself and he does change nappies/feed the baby if it happens right in front of him and he does load and put on the dishwasher. Am I being too harsh?

YABU - He's made some progress so that shows he is putting in effort, stick at it and he'll get there.
YANBU - He's made such slow progress that he's clearly not putting in any effort, cut your losses, he won't get there.

The only thing I'm not sure about here is the presentation.

How well do you respond to criticism OP?

Some people don't respond well, so perhaps he's trying to avoid if it's likely to cause bad feeling? Equally if he told you that's the reason he doesn't want to do it, that's likely to cause bad feeling too.

I would have a conversation about it with a relevant colleague. He probably feels that it would be much ruder to say “I just really don’t want to because it’s unbelievably boring and makes me feel vaguely embarrassed for both of us” even though that is exactly how most people feel about watching someone else give a work-based presentation especially one on one. Yeah it would be nice for OP if he’d just do it, but it’s not like food shopping which is necessary and beneficial for their whole family.

I laughed out loud when you mentioned the dishwasher because it's the only thing DW copes with

Me too. I am ruler of the dishwasher. It must be loaded a particular way. Glasses on left, mugs on right and never shall the two mix or swap sides. I run it every night and every morning the very first thing I do is empty the dishwasher and put away the dishes. Then I can eat breakfast. With ADHD a routine is invaluable for coping.

I love head above the carpet going to use that from now on.
I was going to suggest outsourcing, get a cleaner, send shirts to the laundry etc, but then I thought why the fuck should you.
I think he’s just a lazy git I’m afraid.
Holds down his job ok.
Put up with it or prepare to leave he won’t change, sorry.

^100% agree with this

Oops that was for @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles

He’s not that smart and witty if he needs his wife to say ‘there is some rubbish, put it in the bin.’

Did he live in a rubbish dump wearing dirty old clothes when you met him? If so, didn’t that put you off?

Change his socks??

Is there any jobs he does like doing
Such as I hate doing the dishes but dp loves it (weirdo 😂) you know and split the tasks that need doing that way? It does sound more like he can't be arsed than nd to me

If someone is a 'merailer' or 'walrus', best to ignore, don't engage, just report if they are breaking the talk guidelines. Don't make the thread about them.

“We both work full time. I’m a solicitor at a U.S. firm in London and he’s a teacher in secondary school. I work about 60-70 hours each week but 50% is WFH and 50% in London.”

@DinnerThyme I am a City lawyer working similar hours and I don’t know how you have the energy for this. My DH also works full time in a stressful job and absolutely pulls his weight. To give you an example, he has the morning off to take our DC to an appointment and will then drop her off at nursery afterwards. I went to the gym for an 1.5hr before work and by the time I came back, child was dressed and fed, all beds had been made, house tidied and he was hoovering. I did not ask him but he is a grown up with eyes, noticed that the place could do with a tidy and that he had some spare time to do it.

We do, however, have a weekly cleaner so we are only ever tidying rather than cleaning.

50/50 here.

He's not really improved by the sound of it - although you haven't seemed to need him to test the presentation one so jury's out. He does all the laundry though so regardless of his system if it gets done its a mental load you don't have to worry about?

I'd pick my battles honestly. I don't know if I'd expect him to help with presentations, tidy the house, do the hoovering/mopping/dusting as you say, laundry, shopping and kids.

Food or cleaning I'd personally pick (and keep the presentation thing)

Food its IMO unreasonable for him to do the shopping unless he knows the menu otherwise of course he'll buy crap. That either means you give him a shopping list in advance and he has to also do a stock take for non-food / usual top ups, or he does the cooking/meal planning so he owns that space.

Same with cleaning - maybe he has to do the hoovering and mopping/wiping - which therefore includes keeping things tidy enough to do those other things.

one of those end-to-end may be more within his abilities (especially if there is a little bit of ND/ADHD in there) than lots of things spread out. Also means focused areas are entirely his mental load or yours - having everything across both of you means you'll never fully be able to relax as you'll be cross checking everything

I get sometimes actually offended in here by people suggesting that every idiot and lazy bugger must have ADHD.
We know what shoes are and where they go and that rubbish goes in a bin.

I have no suggestions here except getting rid (i know, easier said than done). I think issue was to tolerate it for so long.

I know what you mean, but my brother has ADhd and is very similar!

Hmm...

Why would he be 'fine' at work (though, no one here is in his classes or his staffroom so has no idea how 'fine' he actually is)... when work is literally a day scheduled by the hour as to what he is doing, with whom, what the goals are, what needs to be covered, even down to when he has to plan and what he has to plan for...

And then struggle at home where there are far more variables, less structure, more chance of routines being disrupted etc etc.

I thought my DP was just a lazy twat - nope. He now has a DX, he is ND (Executive Dysfunction, Demand Avoidance and a few other things)... AND is sometimes, also a lazy twat!

Mine seems to think if he has spent x amount of time on a job (the amount of time he wants to spend or thinks is the right amount of time) then the job is done - then you go and look at the worktops and they're not actually clear, or the hoovering is only partially done and he can't see that.

He also believes some jobs take much longer than they really do, which puts him off doing them - he does not realise that he is including the time he spends thinking about the job, putting off doing the job and grumping about it, along with the actual time the job takes, which is beyond infuriating!

He has to work VERY hard to get into better habits and they do need to be ingrained habits to over-ride things... for example I have shown him the differences between us both making a cup of tea, which he had no idea of...

Me: Kettle on - wipe up worktops whilst kettle boils, put some bits in the counter top bin, generally look for something to do - water on teabag - sweep floor/mop floor (we have a squirty mop, not a mop n bucket mop), replace mop next to fridge, get milk from fridge, teabag in bin, milk in brew, milk back in fridge - job done.

Him: Kettle on - stare at phone/at own navel - water on teabag - stare at phone/at own navel - milk in/bag out on side... job done.

The idea that you can do one thing whilst another thing is doing its own thing... lost on him, not remotely natural in this context.

But he CAN do that same thing elsewhere, I spotted him setting his PC up to update windows and then sorting out his model trains whilst it was doing its thing - which is again infuriating.. but, it shows a lack of ability to transfer skills, more than just being a twat!

Oh colour me surprised
A post critical of a woman from @Keyansier (again)

I feel the exact same. My son is autistic and knows when I say ‘tidy up please’ that means that rubbish from the floor should be picked up and put into the bin. It’s insulting to see autism/ADHD immediately suggested to explain why a man who managed to work professionally is incapable of putting shoes in the cupboard.

DH and I nearly broke up many many years ago because of his inability to manage or control his anger. At the time, I gave him an ultimatum - get help, or the wedding is off. And he went and got help.

what I didn't know then, but do know now, is that one of the reasons DH going off to get help did in fact work, is because his anger issues weren't only at home. For years, he had developed a reputation in his family and with friends as being someone who was super laid back until he snapped. He had struggled at certain jobs because he'd get oversensitive and over enraged about something. He had lost relationships and friendships. It was a genuine issue but one that it took ME to insist he get help for before things changed.

A man who appears to have had not one, but two, successful careers and manages his life etc perfectly well in that context, is not a man who has ADHD or any of the many other excuses posters are making for him. It's a man who, for whatever reason, is uninterested in making the effort. It could even be because he IS ND but he's only willing to do the work to make it manageable in areas that are important to him (work etc).

PS I work with lawyers all the time. You sound like you have an element of imposter syndrome here in that you are a lawyer working in a specific sector but you don't have confidence in your knowledge or skills. Global firms, particularly US ones, often have coaching and mentoring programs, especially for women, to help manage this. I would talk to HR about what might be available so that you don't need him to check your work.

I havent read the full thread but OP he has ADHD!! tell him to get diagnosed. The medication might save you both!

I'm pretty sure that people who have ADHD have it both at home and at work. If he is only incapable at home then I am skeptical it is this.

OP what kind of job does he do? How does he manage at work?

Has he ever lived on his own?

Anyway @DinnerThyme. "But, he is completely fucking incompetent and it drives me insane. I have to do everything."

Why are you setting your bar this low? Genuine question and I wonder what the answer is.

You love him yet you describe this awful behaviour where he constantly makes you frustrated, stressed and unhappy. And worse than this, you've told him repeatedly how he makes you unhappy yet he still keeps doing it. Do you treat people you love like that? And if not, why not? If you look at his behaviour in the light of that, it may make you reconsider the situation.

If I thought I was causing my DH to feel the way you feel (and he had told me repeatedly) I would feel awful and I would take it on board. If I didn't think his expectations were reasonable, I would tell him that. But agreeing with him and then doing fuck all to make him feel better would make me seem self centred, putting myself first and not giving a shit I was hurting him.

It's not just about yoghurts and dishwashers, it's indicative of a much bigger issue and how he treats you and why you don't expect better.

But this is BS in a way - I absolutely BOSS work. I am amazing, there's not many better than me, top of league tables, celebrated nationally for achievements etc. But in my private life I absolutely suck, which is why I'm on my way to an ADHD diagnosis as it's all really coming to a head and the doc is helping me. Don't judge a book by its 'work' cover.

I bet his classroom is tidy, his lessons are planned and he is able to respond to situations as they arise.

I wouldn’t say he is managing the laundry- it sounds massively over complicated and often doesn’t work. Who leaves wet clothes for 3 days?!

It does sound like he just doesn’t care and knows that you’ll pick up the slack. I’d seriously be considering leaving him on his own for at least a week, if not permanently.

when my ex left I couldn’t believe the weight that lifted from my shoulders. Yes, I had to work and bring up 2 kids on my own, but there was none of that stress of hoping that another adult would take on household tasks without being asked, or having to organise them to do it.