AIBU to not give DH a medal for this shop?

[DinnerThyme]

I love DH more than anyone else on this planet and he's my absolute best friend. He's kind, he's smart, he's interesting, he's handsome, he's witty, he's fun. But, he is completely fucking incompetent and it drives me insane. I have to do everything. Granted, he works very hard, when being micromanaged to the nth degree and would work 24/7 if asked - but, unless given explicitly clear instructions, everything he does just falls apart. It's 10x more work for both us so I don't think it's even "strategic incompetence".

A few months ago, it all came to a head. I expressed how unbelievably miserable it was making me to always have to be the only real adult in the relationship, that his incompetence is hurting me and that he's a grown adult who should be able to cope with all of these things. He fully accepted the problem and the responsibility to fix it. Since then, to my mind, things have not improved enough. To his mind, he has improved and is trying.

He outlined his examples:

• "Offering to help with [an aspect of my job]" - (Essentially, I give a lot of presentations and it's useful to run through those with someone before I give them. For years, when I ask DH, he'll say yes and then try to avoid it meaning that I waste huge amounts of time waiting for him (like "oh, sure, I'll just go to the bathroom and then we'll run through it" - but then he goes off and does something else and doesn't come back so I spent ages waiting for him for no reason). He says that he's massively improved on that - but, to my memory, he's not helped me one single time since the big argument - he's just promised to, which is no change from before. I've said it's fine to say no but he won't, he'll just lead me on. It's worth noting that he has expertise in an area which is why it's useful to have his input and I have expertise in an area of his work and frequently help him out with his.
• "Keeping the house tidy" - We've had to cancel his family coming over twice since the big argument because the house was too messy and I refused to tidy the whole house by myself for his guests. Any tidying he's done has been under explicit instructions from me (literally to the point of "there's some rubbish, put that in the bin", "that's DS's shoe, put that in the cupboard"). When left to tidy by himself, I'll return an hour later and it's literally not tidier - he'll have moved one pile of crap to one place and put another pile of crap where it was. The only exception to this is the dishwasher, which DH insists on doing every single night before bed, regardless of how much actually needs to go into it. To my memory, he's not done any tidying at all without being explicitly asked other than the dishwasher. In fairness to him, he does also do laundry and has some kind of "system" that I can't fathom for where he puts different baskets depending on whether they're clean/dirty/wet/dry and then split by person...I don't understand his system so I don't touch it and leave him to it. It apparently works for him (except on the frequent occasions that he can't find anything, when he's not sure if a basket is clean or dirty and when wet baskets get forgotten about and need rewashing) so I don't micromanage that and just leave him to his chaos "system". He has not swept, hoovered, wiped, mopped, dusted...
• "Taken charge of food deliveries...I did the last one without any support" - He's done two. The first one I sat with him, with a list and told him exactly what to put in the basket, in exact quantities. The second one, I told him some things that were needed (shampoo, conditioner, nappies etc) but left him to it. He bought the non-food items I asked for but, in terms of just food, he bought: sausage rolls, juice, pasta frozen ready meal, smoked salmon, cream cheese, cheddar, apples, crisps, squeezy fruit pouches, bear strawberry yoyos, frozen pizza, curly fries, avocados, milk, bread, bananas. This is to sustain a family of four, for a week. Keep in mind, I can't have dairy so I'm not able to eat the sausage rolls, the pasta ready meal, the cream cheese, the cheddar, the frozen pizzas or the milk. I'm baffled as to how he believes that this is a sign he's done something good. I feel like it's what a 10yo would buy.
• "Dealing with DS and DD issues in the morning (like nappies and feeding) and not just fucking off" - ok, yeah, if one of the DCs need a nappy change or DD is crying for milk and I'm not there then he will now change/feed them instead of waiting for me to come back and sort it out. I'm not sure why that's such a huge win though.

AIBU to expect more "progress" than this in three months? Granted, he has made progress, he did do a Tesco delivery by himself and he does change nappies/feed the baby if it happens right in front of him and he does load and put on the dishwasher. Am I being too harsh?

YABU - He's made some progress so that shows he is putting in effort, stick at it and he'll get there.
YANBU - He's made such slow progress that he's clearly not putting in any effort, cut your losses, he won't get there.

@emptythelitterbox
Notice it's only men. Always men who can't fucking figure out how to feed themselves or buy groceries, or do some laundry.

No it’s not. Have a look at a few of my posts regarding my ADHD….and how I failed at even these basic things when I was undiagnosed and unmedicated for it.

I am not sure where exactly anyone has said 'oh he DEFINITELY has ADHD/is ND etc'...

I suggest he may be, and that raising this with him may result in some change, if he realises there are things he can do, there are reasons why he does things (or not) the way he does...

He may not be of course, or he may be but have no interest in changing anything at all. Only he can say and he isn't here!

There does seem to be a lot of people projecting though and I think its the 'he's a lazy fucker, a twat, throw him out' brigade that are the worst, you simply do not know that, and cannot know that, based on the OP's posts!

Exactly this.

Posters are so set on labelling him as a lazy bastard they don’t actually care whether he may have ADHD or not.

ADHD and ASD (as the two are often interlinked) is a spectrum. What one person can cope with completely fine, another person might not be able to do in any capacity whatsoever.

As an example of myself, I’m completely efficient in work (due to a set routine, others to constantly hold me accountable, lists and reminders, hyper focusing on my area of responsibility), but I find basic household tasks much harder to do.

I’m terrible at remembering to lift washing out of the machine for example. On my worst weeks I can wash the same load 5 times. If my partner asks me to do something I’ll say yep, I’ll do it in a minute. Then I forget entirely until he asks me about it hours later.

These tasks on paper are 20x easier than jobs I have to do in work.

in fact I’ve been defending the ableist narrative that ADHD apparently doesn’t affect women, and if you can have a good career, you can’t possibly have ADHD.

The point wasn't that it doesn't affect women. It fucking does. The point posters were making was that interestingly the women have to fuking deal with it and do stuff otherwise house would end up on fire and kids taken away. Nit that it doesn't affect them.

Another point was that if you manage to have a career you should be able to do simple bloody task like shopping. Not that you can't have career with ADHD, but that if you manage career and job, you can manage a simple bloody shop.

I actually find you ableist.

I am not sure where exactly anyone has said 'oh he DEFINITELY has ADHD/is ND etc'...

Right, no one has said he definitely has ADHD or ND…..
Yet posters are shouting us down and claiming he definitely is a lazy fucker and then spouting all sorts of ignorant comments as to what they think ADHD can only be when in reality, are so many types and presentations of it, there is no one ADHD. And not knowing you have it has a huge impact on how well you can even begin to cope. As is not having the right medication and dosage.

The point was ableist in that it presumed to say that women with ADHD always manage to do x,y,z and really, not all of us do manage. You can read my earlier posts in this thread as an example of this. It was a narrative saying that ADHD can’t be as bad as not being able to feed yourself, keep a house tidy, and so on. Well it bloody well can. I’ve lived it.

The point about the career vs shopping, we have talked about ad nauseum and the problem is that ignorance surrounding ADHD includes the assumption that of you can do x, then you can also do y. This isn’t true for everyone, a task that is simple to a NT person might be too difficult for a ND person, and vice versa because our brains are wired differently. You are assuming the job/career is harder than overseeing the process of deciding what to buy and then going shopping. This isn’t a universal truth.

You are also ignoring the fact that many of us with ADHD can do x or y but not both on the same day. So, if I’ve used tons of brain energy to get through a full days work, having a career and all, what often happens is my brain shuts down. I find it actually loses a lot after 5-6hrs so by 8-9hrs Im coasting. I go home, and my brain can’t handle doing even the simplest task like construct and eat an actual meal because it’s reached it’s limit. If I keep pushing past this limit, then I get ADHD burnout, which is a complete collapse & mental breakdown.

This was all before I was diagnosed and got help and medication. Which could be the situation the OPs DH is in.

This isn’t the gotcha you think it is.

People with ADHD do notice, absolutely we do, and we also feel like a sack of shit for not doing better at tidying or whatever. And the years of being called stupid and lazy echo round our heads and is repeated by ableist people like you.

OPs DP thinks it's absolutely fine in his eyes to expect the OP to tidy up and make the house ready to a standard he considers acceptable for his family, but if it comes to HIM lifting a finger, he doesn't do and cancels the visit because the house hasn't been tidied for him.
That isn't about being ND or not. It's about being quite happy for your other half to tidy to the standard you want, but not doing it yourself.

Same with complaining about being told to do things to care for the children. The OP has said the reason he doesn't ask her to do most things with the DC is because she gets on and does it, but when he's asked to, he acts like he's being put upon. That isn't about being ND. That's objecting to actively look after your own children.

You're really working hard to accuse me and others of ableism for not letting a whole pile of whataboutery excuse behaviour that is shitty.

He might have ADHD, he might be ND in another way, but it doesn't excuse dumping the load on the OP and it isn't the OP's job to continually tie herself in knots trying to find a solution for another adult doing the bare minimum of being an adult and a parent.

The point is, we have to find ways to cope and get things done even though it's hard for us.
I am VERY rarely on the side of "ugh men" but on this point, I will stay firm.
Women cannot not find a way to cope. If a mother took care if kids like crap no one would be going around doing "that's ok love. Probs adhd?". Oh no.. There would be judgement. A heavy judgement.
Are we perfect and do everything perfectly? Heck no. Can we do everything on time and on a same day? Heck no. But we get it done some way or another.

If he has ADHD, it's not that what's problem. It's the lack if finding solutions and dropping it on the spouse. That's what many are angry about. Because we had to find solutions. And in his case his solution is his wife does it all

@LolaSmiles
Im getting really tired of you saying that the OP’s DH thinks this and thinks that when we have no idea what he actually thinks. You are seriously fabricating a fictional character of lazy fucker husband out of cobwebs and spit.

I have called out the statements that were ableist regarding ADHD. None of them were regarding these flights of fancy of yours about what you think some stranger hundreds of miles away that you’ve never met thinks and feels.

And suggesting ADHD as a possibility, it isn’t excusing, it is a possible explanation so that there is a path forward where the OPs DH can do more in future.

He doesn’t know he might have ADHD. And he may never find out because so many posters are heavily invested in advising the OP that it cannot be ADHD but lazy fucker sexist twat dumping the wife work on you syndrome.

Yes, I agree there would be heavy judgement on women, I have faced it myself and it was not helpful at all. Incidentally, there is tons of judgement on here towards this man too. Do you think that the judgement I faced was a good thing? Such that you’re justified in directing such judgement and anger at this man too?

Or perhaps since I have been on the receiving end of everything (and more) that has been said about this man, do you think maybe my opinion that such nastiness and judgement were unhelpful to me and so is likely unhelpful to men as well? And perhaps people should just stop being judgemental?

There are a lot of ADHD traits here, and whether he is or not, ADHD friendly strategies may help. He seems to want to participate but not know how to do it effectively rather than being a common garden lazy man-child.

I loathe online food shopping, it's abstract. Being in the shop, being inspired by what is actually there to buy helps me to work out what to put together that week. I don't know what I want to eat until I'm there, and advance meal planning is pointless if the stock isn't there anyway. Seeing the food and handling it is a tactile experience.
Getting pedantic over the details of nutrient portion sizes is deeply unhelpful and overwhelming.

I can clean, but tidying thwarted me for years. Some people don't pick it up by osmosis and have to be taught strategies on how to actually do it and what to do with the stuff.
I'd recommend a structure like The Organised Mum Method, and her Rock The Housework podcasts which talk you through how to tidy and clean. It makes so much difference having a gentle voice guiding you through what needs doing with no criticism. It's just about doing the tasks for X minutes and not drowning in how to reach an unobtainable perfection.

Teaching can be a great job for ADHD. The deadlines are tight, it's reactive, stimulating, creative and structured. There's not enough time to get bored or lost in your thoughts. Success in one area of your life does not automatically mean that you are adept at adulting in all areas of life, and it may need some changing of strategy to make it work.

You weren’t able to feed or change your children? I mean to me if someone is genuinely incapable of that (rather than simply choosing not to do it because somebody else will) their needs are extremely severe, and I’d be surprised they can manage to hold down a teaching position.

And even if he did have ADHD - that doesn’t mean op needs to tolerate his behaviours. A man who refuses to care for his children and isn’t capable of simple tasks like picking up rubbish just realistically isn’t a life partner - you’re just their carer.

I wasn’t even able to feed myself. I lost 1/3rd of my body weight and went from a healthy weight to dangerously underweight. My DH had the DC in another country, he went ahead with them because we knew I couldn’t take care of them on my own. 🤷‍♀️

i supposed to be able to sell the house, arrange movers and finish out my contract at work. While he set up new home, got kids in new schools, got his job going and so on.

I failed so badly, my brother had to fly out and live with me for two months, getting me fed, cleaning, getting me to work and helping me sell the house and arrange movers and such.

He doesn’t know he might have ADHD. And he may never find out because so many posters are heavily invested in advising the OP that it cannot be ADHD but lazy fucker sexist twat dumping the wife work on you syndrome.

Have many people said it cannot be ADHD?

He doesn't need a diagnosis to find strategies that work for him. He needs to WANT to take something off the plate of his partner enough to make an effort.

Didn't the OP say she's been trying to support him quite proactivity for several months and each thing she tries doesn't work?

And even if he does have ADHD to the point where he can hold down a demanding career effectively that involves being responsible for 30+ children at a time (whilst being incapable of doing simple things for his own children without complaining), the OP doesn't have to tolerate having to micromanage another adult like you would a preteen.

I’d be surprised they can manage to hold down a teaching position.
Yes, that’s your ableism and not understanding ADHD. I was working in a senior position on a salary of £136k/Yr ten years ago….so after adjusting for inflation that salary in 2012 is equivalent to a salary today of £206k/Yr.

Okay, so you had extremely severe needs resulting in you being incapable of any normal daily tasks and needing a carer. The op’s husband does not suffer this severely - he is able to do some things as and when he chooses. He does not need to be fed, he is capable of going to work daily. He can feed and change his kids when asked, he just complains about it.

And even if he did - it is okay if op decides she does not want to be a full time carer to a man who can hold down a job but ‘can’t’ feed his kids or put rubbish on the bin.

No it isn’t. It’s common sense that point out that the overwhelming majority of people who can hold down a full time teaching position are also capable of feeding their child.

The fact that you somehow managed to perform an extremely high level job even while needing a family member to perform care for you is not indicative of the norm.

@LolaSmiles
Have many people said it cannot be ADHD? too many

He doesn't need a diagnosis to find strategies that work for him. He needs to WANT to take something off the plate of his partner enough to make an effort.

Wincing here. A diagnosis would help because you get more than four letters of ADHD, you get a full report outlining the assessment results highlighting your weak areas and then also, critically, recommending strategies likely to work for your ADHD. And WANT and EFFORT get you exactly no fucking where without also having the right strategy or right tools for your ADHD.

Didn't the OP say she's been trying to support him quite proactivity for several months and each thing she tries doesn't work? Yes, but it’s been pointed out how her ‘help’ could very unhelpful if his ADHD has certain common traits. The OPs help is well meant but, they are wild stabs in the dark, and the pattern of what did not work, is actually another piece of the puzzle indicating ADHD is a possibility.

even if he does have ADHD….OP doesn't have to tolerate having to micromanage another adult like you would a preteen..
No one has said she does. Quite a few partners can’t tolerate having a partner with a disability. My DHs grandmother divorced her husband when he went blind saying she “ain’t gonna be married to no cripple”. It would be naive to think that disability isn’t a deal breaker to some even if it seems unfair. Thankfully, in my case my DH isn’t going anywhere, but I do know it is a real fear among many who are or become disabled that their marriage will not survive due to the disability. Some people even try to hide a disability or go into denial due to the fear of losing their partner.

Of course it’s “not indicative of the norm’ because ADHD is a disability! All your assumptions as to “the norm” are irrelevant really.

Not sure how much choice he has. An assessment would be helpful to determine this.

Well he has a choice because he is able to do it. He just complains a lot that he doesn’t feel op should ask him to do it.

It’s common sense that point out that the overwhelming majority of people who can hold down a full time teaching position are also capable of feeding their child.

But less than 10% of people have ADHD. So it doesn’t matter what the overwhelming other 90%+ people can do. And again ADHD is very variable, so even within that under 10%, you will have people who can and people who cannot.

Ability to do something can be variable when you have ADHD. There are good days and bad days. Complaining about having to be asked could be self flagellation- as in you shouldn’t have to ask me, why can’t I remember!. There’s a lot we don’t know as to context.

Well, since an expert is here, we can all just take our ableist arses elsewhere, innit.
Or can we even do that? Are we capable of that? 😔 Can someone write me a manual plz