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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this is unacceptable of the school

437 replies

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 20:19

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

OP posts:
hoppityscotch · 09/01/2023 21:45

Would they let him put a sticker on a toilet?

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:45

Goosefatroasts · 09/01/2023 21:44

Sending another child is incredibly poor practice. How would they be able to convey a sense of urgency in an emergency? Also if your school is so cash strapped then I would presume the teacher you have pulled from the other class is therefore leaving their class unattended.

A walkie talkie really is the way forward. It’s hardly ground breakingly expensive or high tech. You buzz straight through to reception in an emergency. A lot quicker and safer than your schools piss poor policy of just sending another kid to relay a message to the office. Disgusting.

Yes, they are leaving their class unattended!

Where is the money for Walkie Talkies coming from?

Crazycrazylady · 09/01/2023 21:45

Honestly Op, I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here. It's going to be tricky for any teacher to regulate your son to see if has had an accident especially if he won't tell or may even deny it if asked .
If your son only has accidents at school then with a bit of work it should be possible to move past this. If the problem is the kids toilets. You could ask to come in at break time and take him to disabled /teachers toilets which are hopefully a bit cleaner. I'd also put him a pull up for school which would make it easier for him to clean himself up discreetly if he does have an accident if he is shy about asking for help.

If he is having daily poo accidents , I'm not sure that's sustainable in the medium term for the school or even himself poor things. Kids will be mean but it honestly doesn't sound like he is a million miles away from sorting this .

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:45

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:43

Probably, but he won’t get in unless his SEN are severe or violent.

Show quote history

It's not severe or violent. He's very bright academically. Brilliant at maths. Picking up phonics well. He's quiet and shy at school. Struggles socially.

OP posts:
Fluffyknickers · 09/01/2023 21:46

@1hyuny whats wrong with you! Clearly worried about her DS and you just want to report her. 🤷‍♀️

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:47

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:45

It's not severe or violent. He's very bright academically. Brilliant at maths. Picking up phonics well. He's quiet and shy at school. Struggles socially.

Show quote history

Very unlikely to get an EHPS place then.

toocold54 · 09/01/2023 21:47

He wouldn't be able to clean himself up.

Is he not able to wipe himself after he does a poo?

If so maybe this is part of the problem - that he’s using the toilet but not wiping or not finishing properly.

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:49

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:47

Very unlikely to get an EHPS place then.

Show quote history

Fantastic. Just what I needed to hear 😂 so my kid has to be violent before he gets the help he needs

OP posts:
davegrohll · 09/01/2023 21:49

My ds is 8 and still can't wipe himself properly !! God at 4 it would've been all over his hands ! You have my sympathies op because I get the toilet fear in an autistic child !!

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:49

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:49

Fantastic. Just what I needed to hear 😂 so my kid has to be violent before he gets the help he needs

Show quote history

Yes. Again: this is what education looks like in 2023.

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:51

toocold54 · 09/01/2023 21:47

He wouldn't be able to clean himself up.

Is he not able to wipe himself after he does a poo?

If so maybe this is part of the problem - that he’s using the toilet but not wiping or not finishing properly.

He can't wipe well but he genuinely isn't even using the toilet at school. I've seen the difference between a few skids because he Wipes badly and full on poo

OP posts:
davegrohll · 09/01/2023 21:51

We're still battling to get an ehcp in year 3!! He went into school diagnosed as nursery referred him almost straight away! Still didn't make a blind bit of difffence ! Because he isn't disruptive etc he's just left to get on with it, even though that means he doesn't do anything as he needs constant 121 to access the curriculum !

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:51

davegrohll · 09/01/2023 21:51

We're still battling to get an ehcp in year 3!! He went into school diagnosed as nursery referred him almost straight away! Still didn't make a blind bit of difffence ! Because he isn't disruptive etc he's just left to get on with it, even though that means he doesn't do anything as he needs constant 121 to access the curriculum !

Oh gosh. This is going to be years worth of shit isn't it

OP posts:
ArtyZiff · 09/01/2023 21:51

This reply has been deleted

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User2346 · 09/01/2023 21:52

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:41

This is a small village based primary school.

I wonder if perhaps he'd be better off at another school locally that has a dedicated SEN unit. They have mainstream and SEN classes. I actually have an interview there this week for a SEN TA position.

I initially chose the small village school because DS is shy and I thought would be better suited to a smaller environment but perhaps not if they can't meet his needs.

If you want an SEN unit your son will need an EHCP to qualify, not being toilet trained will suffice however it is evidence that he has additional needs that cannot be met to support your application. If you can’t get to see the Senco follow the schools complaints procedure and keep a diary of soiling incidents and keep emailing the school to get a paper trail for evidence.

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:52

This reply has been deleted

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🖕🖕🖕

OP posts:
Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 21:52

User2346 · 09/01/2023 21:52

If you want an SEN unit your son will need an EHCP to qualify, not being toilet trained will suffice however it is evidence that he has additional needs that cannot be met to support your application. If you can’t get to see the Senco follow the schools complaints procedure and keep a diary of soiling incidents and keep emailing the school to get a paper trail for evidence.

Show quote history

Thank you, that's really helpful

OP posts:
toomuchwin · 09/01/2023 21:53

How have you communicated with school so far? You need to start doing everything in writing - copy in the SENCO/ Head to your emails to the teacher. (You need a paper trail for an EHCP application or any complaints).
Raise the issues via email (if you speak in person follow it up with an email restating what was discussed/agreed). Say it's unacceptable and ask how they propose to deal with it. If they don't reply/ dismiss then raise a complaint - then if necessary you can take it to the governors.
SEN parents need to be polite but assertive. If the school can't cope or meet your sons needs then they need to put that in writing not leave him to suffer.
Tbh they don't sound very on it but you need to escalate if that's the case and give them the chance to address it.

User2346 · 09/01/2023 21:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Reported that is uncalled for and nasty

Leah5678 · 09/01/2023 21:58

1hyuny · 09/01/2023 20:30

This is your 2nd post about this in AIBU in the last few hours. Reported.

Idk what is going on on mumsnet with deleting/reporting threads over basically nothing? Whats wrong with making two posts the first probably didn't get many answers.
Anyway to answer the ops question yes it is unacceptable they didn't change him, being too busy to notice isn't really an excuse, poo stinks it's impossible not to smell it

Kamia · 09/01/2023 22:01

If a 5 year old pooed themselves It will stink. The whole class will stink. They should have called you to take him home or bring in some clean clothes and change him. It is madness that they left him sitting in it.

User2346 · 09/01/2023 22:01

OP take no notice of anyone who says that you want get an EHCP, your son clearly has needs even if he is well behaved and academic. Please get in touch with IPSEA or SOSISEN and they can help you with the process xxx

toomuchwin · 09/01/2023 22:02

Btw my son had some accidents year r/1 although not regularly. He stopped by year 2. He is autistic. Like your son mine isn't violent or aggressive. He is mostly fine academically, quite quiet and wonderfully quirky. He got an EHCP agreed by year 3 and school a lot of 1:1 (I think around 60-70% of the time).
It can be done if needed. You can apply for an EHCP needs assessment yourself. You will need to demonstrate more need than just the toileting though. A paper trail is very helpful.

Teenagehorrorbag · 09/01/2023 22:06

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 20:19

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

DS has ASD and wasn't fully trained when he started in reception. I offered to send him in pull ups but the school said no - he needs to learn and we will sort him. He was dry but not poo-trained. I sent him in with spare clothes each day. He pooed most days after lunch, and when I collected him they would give me his dirty stuff in a bag.

I don't know if he told them but more likely they smelt it - hard to miss, as you say! (He never minded sitting in it, from what I remember). He was diagnosed I think by then but didn't have an EHCP in place or anything - the school were just open to helping.

I had tried for years to get him poo-trained but without luck. Within a term or two at school he was fine - whether it was his age or whether he became aware of being different I don't know, but school could not have been more helpful. I'm sorry you're having such a bad experience.

Not sure what 'legal' rights you have, as such - but I hope you get it sorted. Good luck!

RudsyFarmer · 09/01/2023 22:06

Schools do have policies about this and should work with you to ensure your child isn’t sitting in his own waste every afternoon. I would be contacting to SENCO directly. If the school
arent interested then I’d be going above their heads and contacting the parent governors.